Navy SEALs Court Martialed for Bloody Lip

by November 25, 2009 11/25/09

fallujahWe’ve never considered ourselves a News Web site, and try to stay away from political issues, but this is just something that hits way to close to home for us.

Hopefully you all remember the horrible incident depicted in this image, where four Blackwater contractors were ambushed by insurgents on March 31, 2004.

They were subsequently dragged from their vehicles, burned, paraded through the streets and strung up on this bridge across the Euphrates in Fallujah, Iraq.

In the news yesterday was an article about how Navy SEALs secretly captured and detained the mastermind of this ambush, Ahmed Hashim Abed.

Abed has told investigators that “He was punched in the face by his captors and had a bloody lip to prove it.” Now instead of being praised for the capture of Abed, three SEALs are facing assault charges.

All three have also chosen trial by court-martial over Admiral’s Mast. Admiral’s Mast isn’t a trial, but a ruling handed down from a commanding officer, in this case an Admiral.

I had this image posted up in my locker during training, to remind me of why I was doing what I was doing, and to see that punching someone in the face for masterminding a terrorist act has resulted in this kind of punishment is beyond words.

Yes, the government is hypersensitive to any kind of prisoner abuse after Abu Ghraib and other instances, but is this truly the way our heroes are treated for giving someone a bloody lip?

Read the Fox News article here.

Human Events Petition to Free the SEALs


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Ratfink
Ratfink

OK i have been involved in this whole thing for some time now and i dont understand it from my point of view. I do not understand how this got out at all when somthing happened with my command it never made it past my OIC and usally he was the one telling me to do it. We did dirty things but it had to be done and its nothing that I loose sleep over all minor things in my eyes. The things that these guys did from what I was told last time I was briefed was there were no marks on the terriorist at all no proof no nothing its just what he is saying all hear say from this guy through a translator. I just dont get it at all in my community we are supposed to get our hands dirty if he had his lip busted so what all members of the spec ops community usally leave in a hurry without eliminating the forces that occupy the area he might have hit it on a door or anything when he was removed from the situation so the team could leave as quickly as possible. I was never questioned on my deployments as to any wrongdoing on my part of my teams part we were never looked at like that I just dont understand how this info got out somwhere somhow the opsec got messed up " loose lips sink ships "

Kristen
Kristen

This is what has become of our country. People that are highly trained get in trouble for something like that. That really makes me feel safe in case something really bad happens we arent going to have any special ops to help out

Cervantes
Cervantes

But regardless of the proof in print, our wonderful and totally none biased media will likely forget to mention that bit of information to the masses that are more worried about their football games, parties, TV programs, rims, clothes, sex life.....

Cervantes
Cervantes

Well, I recently rebelled against FB for disabling my friends account, cuz she was too social?!?!

Anyhow, a legal fund has been started in Facebook under the name SOS (Support our SEALS). Only reason I'm coming back to FB, I encourage anyone that sees my post here and has an account with FB, please go to it and join the support group to exonerate the SEALS of this bullshit accusation. I read that the jihadist handbook (of sorts) states that their 8th general order regarding capture is to accuse their captors of any ridiculous abuse knowing damn well that our legal system will step into it neck deep and hurt those that do the dirty work to keep us safe.

Cervantes
Cervantes

Well, I recently rebelled against FB for disabling my friends account, cuz she was too social?!?! Anyhow, a legal fund has been started in Facebook under the name SOS (Support our SEALS). Only reason I'm coming back to FB, I encourage anyone that sees my post here and has an account with FB, please go to it and join the support group to exonerate the SEALS of this bullshit accusation. I read that the jihadist handbook (of sorts) states that their 8th general order regarding capture is to accuse their captors of any ridiculous abuse knowing damn well that our legal system will step into it neck deep and hurt those that do the dirty work to keep us safe.

The Saint
The Saint

My friends.In case you do not know,let me tell you that the country were i was born,Portugal,once divided the (at the time) known world with Spain.For a few reasons more but essencially for the kind of mentality that has put these SEALs in this situation,we are now in many ways a miserable country barely known in the world if it was not for some soccer players.If this is not what you want,be aware...act!!Stand for the men that protect what you have best.And i am counting on you when my own will fail to protect me...and i know they will because in Portugal those SEAls would probably be forced to retire,as anyone can confirm by investigating a bit of my country history.Be afraid,be very afraid to become what portuguese have become.Greetings and good luck for you and those valourous men,from Portugal !

chuck...
chuck...

This really isn't about the bloody lip. It is about a failure of leadership. If the leadership involved has evidence that the prisoner was abused after he had been subdued and is compliant to his captors orders, then that is punishable. If the bloody lip was received during the effort to subdue the prisoner or necessary to prevent compromising the mission, then it is justified. If the former was the case then you should not be reporting it as you have done above, a failure of your role in leadership. If the latter, then the team's leadership (both direct and even more at fault, several layers above it) is clearly at fault for failure to protect the people who are being lead from further attack by our enemies, both in the media and external to the military.

TheMooKooJoe
TheMooKooJoe

Someone in this world has to stand up and be a little mature. They may not have rules and regulations, but we do, we have values man.

I'm not saying that these fine SEALs deserve everything they're having to deal with, but I just want to point out that we have these rules and regulations so that we don't become like them.

If anything, the SEALs involved in this case should only have to sit down and be lectured to. Blah', blah', blah'. A Court Martial is way over the top here. Way, way over the top.

Jeff A
Jeff A

Unbelievable. I can't believe what this country is coming to. As for a mass exodus, it is already happening. I have several friends in the SOCOM community that have left service with as much as 12-15yrs. To sum it up, I don't blame them. Whoever brought charges should be punched in the face. War is war and you can't win this war by playing with kid glove rules. To win the war on terrorism you have to take the gloves off.

Bandit271R
Bandit271R

Lensgrabber, unfortunately, a court martial is a full trial in the military court system.

I often ponder how our country has managed to stay afloat this long with all the political correctness. Yes, this whole thing along with the trial in New York of Gitmo detainees if a joke. Not to mention it kills the morale of the troops, makes them question whether or not to act accordingly when faced with enemy action for fear that they'll be the ones prosecuted, and is just generally counter productive. Sooner or later, the masses are going to have to realize we're engaged in combat. We're being played by a society that still cuts off hands for stealing, mutilates womens sex organs, and generally don't value life.

So I ask again... WTF, over?

Bandit271R
Bandit271R

Lensgrabber, unfortunately, a court martial is a full trial in the military court system. I often ponder how our country has managed to stay afloat this long with all the political correctness. Yes, this whole thing along with the trial in New York of Gitmo detainees if a joke. Not to mention it kills the morale of the troops, makes them question whether or not to act accordingly when faced with enemy action for fear that they'll be the ones prosecuted, and is just generally counter productive. Sooner or later, the masses are going to have to realize we're engaged in combat. We're being played by a society that still cuts off hands for stealing, mutilates womens sex organs, and generally don't value life. So I ask again... WTF, over?

TxSoldier
TxSoldier

You know, unfortunately....this doesn't surprise me at all. What have we come to, really?? What would our warriors who've come before us say? Would this have been an issue during WWII? Vietnam?

De Minimus
De Minimus

Isn't it strange that we end up doing everything which empowers our enemies and degrades not only our capabilities but the very existence of capable forces?

Why, it's almost like a plan was being followed or something.... When you ask "why?" Take a flashlight with you and extra batteries, maybe a couple of other things too, because that hole is dark, deep and distressing.

De Minimus
De Minimus

Isn't it strange that we end up doing everything which empowers our enemies and degrades not only our capabilities but the very existence of capable forces? Why, it's almost like a plan was being followed or something.... When you ask "why?" Take a flashlight with you and extra batteries, maybe a couple of other things too, because that hole is dark, deep and distressing.

HUghes
HUghes

I am not an operator, just a simple guy that follows this site. It is amazing that we ask of these guys to go in harm's way and expect them to fight with white gloves.

To the best of my knowledge, these rules do not apply to the other side. You never hear about a group of rebel fighters having a sit-down review of what they did wrong or how they were wrong for hanging up the Blackwater operators.

To the SEAls involved in this war and everywhere , Thank you for the job you guys do everyday, you deserve more than what the Gov. is giving you right now.

HUghes
HUghes

I am not an operator, just a simple guy that follows this site. It is amazing that we ask of these guys to go in harm's way and expect them to fight with white gloves. To the best of my knowledge, these rules do not apply to the other side. You never hear about a group of rebel fighters having a sit-down review of what they did wrong or how they were wrong for hanging up the Blackwater operators. To the SEAls involved in this war and everywhere , Thank you for the job you guys do everyday, you deserve more than what the Gov. is giving you right now.

ModernSurvival
ModernSurvival

I hate to say this but at some point "we the people" are going to have to pull some of these bureaucrats right out of that clown house they have made the capitol building into and simply say enough.

This is beyond bullshit!

The truth, they should have shot the SOB, when the other guy is dead there is only one story to be told. But no these men knew the target had value and was worth more alive. They did their duty in my view it is time for America to do ours and simply tell our government that we are not going to allow these men to be subjected to anything other then a thank you and perhaps a medal. These pricks answer to us, it is about time for us to remind them of that.

I can tell you if it were me in their boots the issue would be moot because Ahmed Hashim Abed would be trying to explain himself to Alah at this point!

ModernSurvival
ModernSurvival

I hate to say this but at some point "we the people" are going to have to pull some of these bureaucrats right out of that clown house they have made the capitol building into and simply say enough. This is beyond bullshit! The truth, they should have shot the SOB, when the other guy is dead there is only one story to be told. But no these men knew the target had value and was worth more alive. They did their duty in my view it is time for America to do ours and simply tell our government that we are not going to allow these men to be subjected to anything other then a thank you and perhaps a medal. These pricks answer to us, it is about time for us to remind them of that. I can tell you if it were me in their boots the issue would be moot because Ahmed Hashim Abed would be trying to explain himself to Alah at this point!

btimmer
btimmer

A bloody lip? That's all?? I don't know how many bloody lips I've received during my years of martial arts training.... give me a break! That's NOTHING compared to what this guy inflicted.

We train these guys to go into harms way, to put their lives on the line to get these bad guys, and this is how they're treated when they do their job? SHAME!

btimmer
btimmer

A bloody lip? That's all?? I don't know how many bloody lips I've received during my years of martial arts training.... give me a break! That's NOTHING compared to what this guy inflicted. We train these guys to go into harms way, to put their lives on the line to get these bad guys, and this is how they're treated when they do their job? SHAME!

Dtrain
Dtrain

Horseshit. Brutality breeds brutality. You cannot perform an act without expecting the same (or worse) to happen to you... It's basic escalation. Overall, we treat enemy combatants with respect if they are tenacious. How can you expect anyone to be treated with respect if they will not offer the same dignity to you or you fellows. I would love to get those critics on the front-lines and see how they act.

Jersey
Jersey

Are we not at war? It feels like we are in the school yard, we have 3 operators out of the field because of a punch to the face. Last I checked we where fighting a war in 2 countries right now and need every operator we have. This is pure Bull Shit. First they decied to try terrorist as civilians and now they have 3 HERO's on trial for a punch. People I hate to tell you this but War isn't sunshine and daisies, people kill and get killed hence the title WAR. These SEALs don't come to your place of emplyoment and tell you how to do your job so let's give them the same respect.

marauder4
marauder4

I'll bet that there is a whole bunch of Police Officer/Corrections Officer types who have punched subjects/inmates in the face...on the way to being cuffed up and controlled. If this 'detainee' got popped before being tied up, too damn bad. If he got popped after being tied up, but while still being a pain in the ass, again, too damn bad. If the SeALs popped him for the fun of it (not really likely after having BS'd with a few of these Point-End types) then they should be punished. Since all of them took the Courts Martial, I'm gonna guess which of the three above options happened and wait for the results.

Ridge
Ridge

Sean,

You make a good point. Its just a shame that this is the level of disciplinary action that was taken and that it was taken in the manner it was.

Ridge
Ridge

Wholeheartedly agree about Atlas Shrugged. So many parallels in that book with our nations present situation.

VooDoo3
VooDoo3

Wow. Sounds like some one within the command structure needs to be punched in the mouth for letting this shit happen.

Sean
Sean

Was the busted lip gained during the acquisition or after, when he was a prisoner?

I would really like to hear the SEALs take on this. While I understand it's pretty damn tough not to punch some of these guys in the face, discipline must be maintained. Discipline in Iraq and Afghanistan is no longer simply the adhesive of a well-oiled fighting force; discipline is now a mission-critical factor, the difference between a solid counter-insurgency campaign and one that will utterly fail.

It's just a shame that the buck had to stop there and ruin the heroic deeds of three young gentlemen. Best of luck to them.

Out.

-Sean

Sean
Sean

Was the busted lip gained during the acquisition or after, when he was a prisoner? I would really like to hear the SEALs take on this. While I understand it's pretty damn tough not to punch some of these guys in the face, discipline must be maintained. Discipline in Iraq and Afghanistan is no longer simply the adhesive of a well-oiled fighting force; discipline is now a mission-critical factor, the difference between a solid counter-insurgency campaign and one that will utterly fail. It's just a shame that the buck had to stop there and ruin the heroic deeds of three young gentlemen. Best of luck to them. Out. -Sean

Jeff.
Jeff.

I can't believe this. Absolutely ridiculous.

Ridge
Ridge

This kind of BULLSHIT is going to lead to major braindrain in the armed forces and other agencies.

Why would anyone want to endure what these operators do and then get the shaft when they actually perform their mission.

I suspect it wont be too long until we see a wholesale exodus of tip of the spear types like SF, SEALs, and especially CIA with all the crap they are having to deal with today.

Ridge
Ridge

This kind of BULLSHIT is going to lead to major braindrain in the armed forces and other agencies. Why would anyone want to endure what these operators do and then get the shaft when they actually perform their mission. I suspect it wont be too long until we see a wholesale exodus of tip of the spear types like SF, SEALs, and especially CIA with all the crap they are having to deal with today.

Dark
Dark

Its amazing that we still have special operators who are willing to do the deed. This sickens me. He's damn lucky all he got (if it even actually happened) was a punch in the face. I agree Lensgrabber...if this is the way the brass wants to play it, lets turn over detainee ops to contracts with a plausible deniability clause.

lensgrabber
lensgrabber

This is just pathetic. At least it isn't a full trial. I just hope the CO does the right thing and dismisses it.

Seals: If this is the way it's going to be just hand these people over to Blackwater. They'll know what to do.

lensgrabber
lensgrabber

This is just pathetic. At least it isn't a full trial. I just hope the CO does the right thing and dismisses it. Seals: If this is the way it's going to be just hand these people over to Blackwater. They'll know what to do.

Bryan Black
Bryan Black

Ratfink,

I don't want to say anything that hasn't already been said, but from what we've heard it had to do with the MA having the loose lips...

Bryan Black
Bryan Black

Ratfink, I don't want to say anything that hasn't already been said, but from what we've heard it had to do with the MA having the loose lips...

Cervantes
Cervantes

As I have heard other SEALS mention, this incident should never have leaked out to the public. If there was a problem, it should have stayed within the ranks-in the structure. It should never be broadcast that our SEALS did jack to anyone. They operate under a veil of secrecy, doing what must be done. this is equal (IMHO) to the circus event show trial of KSM in New York, not for the protection of human rights but instead for the detriment of our Republics honor, and our Military standing.Just realize what this incident has added to the problem faced by the people on the ground. Did you know that there are new standing orders that do not allow our soldiers to fire on the enemy unless they have rounds ripping around their person. Meaning, the enemy can congregate, fire rounds in the air and basically taunt our troops, without fear of reprisal. Failure to comply with this order will result in disciplinary action.

TheMooKooJoe
TheMooKooJoe

Someone in this world has to stand up and be a little mature. They may not have rules and regulations, but we do, we have values man. I'm not saying that these fine SEALs deserve everything they're having to deal with, but I just want to point out that we have these rules and regulations so that we don't become like them. If anything, the SEALs involved in this case should only have to sit down and be lectured to. Blah', blah', blah'. A Court Martial is way over the top here. Way, way over the top.

Jersey
Jersey

Wasn't one of the Blackwater contractors killed in the attacks led by Abed, Scott Helvenston? Be glad the only thing this guy got was a split lip. If I was face to face with the bastard that killed a team mate the least he would get would be a bloody lip.

Ridge
Ridge

Sean, You make a good point. Its just a shame that this is the level of disciplinary action that was taken and that it was taken in the manner it was.

Voodoo
Voodoo

Ridge,

I've thought that same thing about the exodus, especially since I've just finished Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. I won't spoil the plot if you've yet to read it, but there are some strong parallels there that apply to many situations we're going through right now.

If those that train for violence are punished for inflicting it, what does that say about our nation?

~ Bryan

Voodoo
Voodoo

Ridge, I've thought that same thing about the exodus, especially since I've just finished Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. I won't spoil the plot if you've yet to read it, but there are some strong parallels there that apply to many situations we're going through right now. If those that train for violence are punished for inflicting it, what does that say about our nation? ~ Bryan

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