10 replies to this topic

[SwatDawg335]

I recently attended a SWAT conference where during one of the break-out sessions an operator discussed a low-light operation where he needed to fire from 30 or so yards without use of his iron sights. He briefly discussed learning a technique for "aiming down the barrel" of his rifle when he was unable to use the sights. He was able to place 4 our of the 5 rounds he fired into the subject including a shoulder, neck and head shot on the moving target.

I tried to catch up with him after the session to learn more about the technique, but was unable to make contact. He said he had learned the technique at an FBI lead training a few months prior to the operation. I'm been googling information about aiming down the barrel of a rifle with little to no success. Most of what I'm finding about looking down the barrel of a rifle, and what a bad idea that is. Not much help, that's for sure.

Is anyone familiar with this method of shooting or perhaps a different word search that I could use to help me learn more?

[LongHaul]

I believe that the method is called "Quick Kill." Here is an old Army video describing the technique:



-LongHaul

[LongHaul]

You might also find "instinctive shooting" or "point shooting" helpful search phrases. Point shooting searches seem to return mostly handgun related info. Here are a couple of interesting links about the development of the "quick kill" method and a recent article on the NRA website about point shooting practice. Hope that helps!

[DStevenson]

I think for the best results you may need to ask a Somali soldier.



In a pinch you might be able to talk to a "gangsta"



I'm sorry... I couldn't resist.

[LongHaul]

Haha! Yep they've been firing without sights for so long they don't even remember what the sights are!

[SwatDawg335]

Awesome. Thanks for the help LongHaul. I've always been familiar with what I refer to as point shooting with sidearm. I'm pretty mush lost all connection with my sights on any man sized target inside of inside of 10 yards. Been that way for a while now. I suspect it may take a bit of time before I develop the same instincts with my rifle. With ammo as tight as it it, I don't get nearly the trigger time that I'd like. At least I've got some reading material to help me better understand it now.

[RHUDSO5]

We teach point of aim aka instinctive shooting during our concealed carry classes. The same principle is applied to rifles or sub guns if needed. Kind of like shooting a shotgun while duck hunting or shooting clay targets is the best way I know how to put it. Your brain processes the distance to the target and the speed at which your target is moving so your brain tells you how much to lead your target and how high to aim to Hit your target. With practice you can hit your target without sights. I hope this helps.

[russio]

Lucky's technique doesn't work worth a hoot with modern, straightline stocks. the line of sight is much too high above the line of the bore. Just get a set of tritium inserts,and do a lot of swift practice on thin metal gongs, using the Ciener .22lr conversion, the SureFire "snap on" sound suppressor, the RRA trigger job kit, and the Shooter's Chrony timer. Be sure to do a lot of work from the weak side shoulder, so you don't have to expose your entire torso when firing around the left side of cover. I use the front sight only, to about 10 yds, on a fully exposed man, but further than that, better use a "flash" sight picutre. You really can learn to aim and still be able to raise the rifle from "low ready (ie, horizontal across thighs, safety engaged, finger outside of the guard) and hit the chest at 25 yds in less than 1.0 second. That's 3x as fast as the average soldier can do the same thing. :-) In 3.0 seconds, at 25 yds, you can learn to raise the rifle, shoulder it, and hit 6 men, if they are not too widely space apart (a few yds between each one) Being slow is every BIT as bad as being inaccurate!

[Oregon Jim]

I have to agree with Russio on the stock making a difference. I attended a Roger Phillips point shooting class and was able to hit 100 yard targets (12" size) with a 10/22 rifle easily, but when shooting 3Gun with an ACOG was not able to make A-Zone hits at anything past 7yards with my AR15 rolled to the 1-o'clock. I'd have to see it to believe it on a 30yard hit with 4 out 5 with an AR and no sights

[spenceman]

Spend like $3000 on new gear and it will make you better. Ok, maybe the $3000 isnt' necessary, but practice is, and a 22lr conversion will make practice cheaper in the long run.

For the life of me I can't think of many reasons not to use your sights, even when time is of the essence. I won't say it's easy to train yourself to sight in and fire in about a second, but it isn't that hard. Lots of repitition will build the requisite muscle memory to get the job done without firing a single round, just do lots of dry fire drills, applying the fundamentals of marksmanship, good stance, and enough repitition to make you not want to look at your rifle any more. It's how the Marines do it. After you've made your back, neck, legs, arms, and wrists good and sore (about a week or two of good dry fire) you are ready to go to the range and work on tightening up your groups. A shot timer is good if you shoot alone, but a friend to run through drills with is usually much cheaper. This method may be slightly slower than point shooting, but its still incredibly fast. Besides, what good is point shooting if you don't hit what you're aiming at.

Using your sights is good for accuracy, and accuracy matters. Period.

[Silver Bullet]

Easiest way I know how to pick up a skill like this is to take up trap or skeet shooting. The necessity to keep your head down on the stock should be obvious. You want as low and as tight a, 'cheek weld' as you can possibly get. What you have to get used to looking at is, 'more of the target' than you see with a conventional sight picture. (It's no different than shooting a pistol really fast while not taking the time to tightly, 'nest' the front sight.)

Anyway, reading's only going to take you so far. Snap caps won't help, either. It's only live-fire practice (and, perhaps, a good instructor) that's really going to, 'bring you along'.