34 replies to this topic

[LongHaul]

Awesome DStevenson! Thanks for posting the AAR and the sweet pics.

[Davis]

Awesome pics man... I'm still very jealous!

[FlashBack]

Fantastic AAR!!
I just acquired my first AR a few months back and picked up Magpul Dynamic Carbine Vol. 1 and watched it this last weekend...so Travis and Costa are teaching seperately these days it seems? Both seem to be very good instructors! I've signed up for a local class next weekend with an instructor that held a Defensive Pistol class I attended last year, should be just what the doctor ordered for this old newbie!

[Geist]

Great pictures what a cool bonus for the class.

[DStevenson]

Both are top notch instructors. The addition of Ron Avery to Travis Haley's class is a nice addition but I am really looking forward to doing a Costa class still.
There were a couple things that bummed me out about the Haley class (we didn't address pistols or pistol to rifle transitions at all) and I lost a wee bit of respect when I saw his 100% NON-MAGPUL kit.

Not a year ago he was hammering away about MagPul being some of the best products made, he is no longer with them and he has dropped them like a dirty dishrag. My suspicions are that the break-up wasn't very amicable. But I would think that you want the best products on your rifle and I think it would be tough to find a competitor to the P-MAG. He swears by the BCM mags and components. But it all makes me wonder if he swears by them because that's who his wagon is attached to now or does he fully believe they are better?

Regardless, he was a great instructor and I not only learned a lot from him I had a blast chatting with him.

[globalsmack]

Dude he was the CEO why wouldnt he say they were the best? The industry moves quick and a lot can change.

I have training with Chris and Trav and i'll be honest Ron Avery is the difference.

[DStevenson]

globalsmack, I absolutely agree that as the CEO he should be pounding the dirt saying his products are the best, and indeed the industry does change quickly.... I wasn't arguing that for one second.
I just felt it was disingenuous.
Costa from my understanding uses PMAGs still as well as other Magpul products, so to me that looks like he is truly using what he feels is best, not who offers the bigger paycheck.
It's just my .02, it doesn't lessen the quality of his training.

Ron was a hoot to chat with also, and he was very knowledgeable. He came feet from getting shot in our class, walking in front of an active shooter while engaging targets at 250 yards.
The class was scattered throughout some trees, a small shed and a sand hill. And he must have been distracted with something and either nearly crossed in front or did cross in front of a shooter that caught him in time. I only caught the end of the conversation as I was on the far side of the shed.

[Davis]

Stevenson: I agree with you man. Just because his name is not at the top of the company roster does not seem like a good reason not to still use Magpul products. For somebody like Haley, or other top echelon weapons manipulation instructors, I would like to see them running whatever is truly the best the industry has to offer and not be so influenced by brand sponsorship. I do understand having an obligation to promote the brand that is sponsoring you, but that does not mean that you cannot run other brands in your kit.

[globalsmack]

The criteria for a mag is that it works and does what its supposed to. I dont think Magpul cornered the market on that. If BCM mags offer the same reliability as PMags and you are in a promotion deal with BCM (as in they help feed your family) why wouldnt you run BCM mags? Not trying to argue on this its just the discussion seems silly.

I know a lot of the guys in the class you were at and didnt hear that story. I was wondering what ron did during the carbine class? Did he use his 45 instead of a carbine?

[DStevenson]

I'm trying to think who was to my right in the class during the event. I want to say Brad (From Patriot Defense) was the person shooting on the far right (looking from the firing line down range) when it happened.
Ron didn't use the pistol once during the Carbine class and borrowed AR's when he needed to make a demonstration.

I can't argue with you about the BCM mags or Travis's preference, all legitimate arguments, it was just my personal feeling about the changes. Sometimes you just go where the money is, I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing. Truthfully I don't know how much mud was thrown during their separation, maybe I would feel exactly the same way he does if it got ugly.

[Lao]

AWESOME PICS D! I totally want to take this class.

[Flyer47]

If you were thinking about taking his class, I would strongly suggest saving up for next year. I took Carbine One the week after. I can't add much to the original AAR since we fundamentally did the same drills. Although the class was scheduled 8-5, we ended up staying on range for 12 hours each day. I left mentally exhausted each night. So much knowledge gained! Only hard part now is finding a close range to practice. I am looking forward to taking a 2014 Haley class.

[SteveSOS]

Ive also heard him talk about not wearing multicam unless its part of your kit. Didn't personally get his reasoning as it really doesnt matter what you are wearing at the range, or even on mission. I used to wear atacs all the time in the woods, sar missions etc... now I wear multicam... about the only reason I could think to not wear it as its what our State Police wear for some reason and it could be taken as someone trying to pose as an official... however its pretty easy to spot someone that is supposed to be there and someone who isnt.

[DStevenson]

I think his rip on milti-cam was more of a rip on geargeeks like myself.

 

Keep in mind he is sponsor oriented (as I mentioned earlier) and he is all about Kryptek gear (which I do like some of it).

Yes... if you are connected with a sponsor of course you utilize their gear, you would be silly not to.

[DStevenson]

Fixed the server links (forgot I moved servers which killed the links to the pics)