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Am I making sense? Or am I full of S&*T?

9mm 40 S&w CCW EDC

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#1 SFPD2010

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

OK, Rules first, I don't want this to break down into a 9mm/40, Ford/Chevy, Bud/Miller argument. I'm looking for first hand knowledge and well thought out opinions, not gun shop dogma. Illinois is in the process of finally getting CCW. It looks like it will be the first quarter of next year before all the rules are written down and everything is a go. So with that in mind, I'm looking for my first legal CCW. Little background on myself, I had and shot the heck out of a Glock 22 for years. I got laid off, and it along with most all my other firearms, got sold off to cover bills. The only CCW-able weapon left is a .38 J-frame. Now I know allot of people have, and still do, trusted a j-frame to keep the wolves at bay, but I really want something more. I've thought of something in the Glock 26/19 family. I can't say I really either enjoy or hated shooting the .40 cal. But I've got to thinking and reading and looking, and started to have this idea that maybe staying with the .40 isn't my best option. The rational I used to get there is this

1) 9mm weapons almost always carry more rounds then their .40 cal partners in the same size frame. I say almost always because where as I couldn't find one that didn't, I far from know everything. So I would get the benefit of 1-3 rounds more, in the same size package, and I can't think of a situation where I would ever complain about having too much ammo.

2)9mm is cheaper, both for plinking/training, as well as carry ammo. The benefit being obvious, it will allow me to spend the same amount yet shoot more. But could that lead to shooting more just for the sake of shooting, instead of training more?

3)The few times I've shot 9mm, (and its been years), I seem to be able to shoot faster follow up shots then with .40. I have no data to back that up, it just seemed that way, and I guess it makes sense, since 9mm recoil less, but again, I don't have any proof of that, and it could just be gun shop dogma sneaking up on me.

4) I found the chart below while I was looking around online. I know it's from a manufacturer and not an independent, But I figured as long as it was comparing it's own products to each other, it would be alright. But comparing the heaviest 9mm to the heaviest .40 cal, I really don't see that much of a difference. The 9mm penetrates gelitin 10", expanded to 0.87 inches, and gets there at 1260 FPS, while the .40 cal penetrates 12", expanded to .96, and gets there at 1041 FPS. So all and all, we are talking about two more inches of penetration, .09 inches of expansion, and a 219 FPS speed difference. Am I wrong for thinking that those numbers are just to similar to really make a difference?

I know that I won't necessarily be under gunned if I choose the 9mm over the .40cal, But I really am hoping someone a little smarter then I can tell me either I am on the right track as far as knowledge and comparing them in a intelligent manner, or at least show me where I got off track

Thanks for reading through my long winded rant, and I hope it made sense to someone.

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#2 Millertime1103

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

I don't have any practical "bang end goes in bad guy" experience, but I've used both calibers on and off-duty. I can definitely shoot faster and a little more accurately with 9mm and having the cheaper ammo was a definite plus. That being said, I opted to consolidate my toys to .40 mainly because that's what I had more of and wanted to stay consistent across the board. I feel it really just boils down to shoot with both and go with what feels best. If you're thinking of SHTF situations, a properly trained shot is going to be more effective regardless of the size of the stick. Just my 2cents.
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#3 Superman

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:39 PM

You basically listed all the reasons why I went with 9mm. Chances are fairly small that I will deploy it for self defense (hopefully never), so my primary use practically will be for fun and range time. I wanted the cheaper range ammo and the higher round count and the lower recoil for faster / more accurate follow up shots (for self defense as well as USPSA and IDPA matches). I have no regrets.
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#4 ARM_Alaska

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:19 PM

I completely agree with both comments above.. You listed all of the same reasons that my daily carry weapon is a 9mm and the "properly aimed shot" mindset is the right one every single time.. It also doesn't hurt that I have 17 chances per mag to make a solid hit compared to the guy with a .40 that has 7-12 chances. I say the right choice is the 9 by far!

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#5 AaronK

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:55 PM

IMO reason 2 is the best reason to go 9mm. I own botha G19 and 26 and the 19 definitely gets more range time.

#6 Smit

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

I am not an expert on this topic but I have shot both and my primary is the 40 cal Glock 22. Yes, it carries 2 less rounds than the 9mm but it comes down to your round placement. I didn't really feel a difference as far as speed and recoil was a tad bit more with the 40. As to stopping power, I would say the 40 cal but that is just my opinion. Hopefully, one shouldn't have to use it or put themselves in places that warrant it. Both are great rounds and reliable. Just my 2 cents.

#7 nroeber78

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:14 PM

When I made the decision to carry my S&W M&P 9mm and caught flack for not carrying 40 my rational and end of argument was this. I have a 18rnds with a 17rnd backup mag in the event I run out or (primarily) have a malfunction ... I'm a damned good shot but I know that all goes out the window under duress .. even if 50% make their mark that's still 9rnds now lets just say I got into slide lock and I decide to stay in the fight and reload ... 50% of that mag hits its mark that's now that's another 8rnds ... that's what 17rnds that's have hit their mark ... if person is still walking toward me at that point i'm tossing the damned gun (chances are "realistically" i'm running after the first mag) and running like hell because apparently there is something super human headed my way .... That said, I've since come across a Sig P220 in .45 and that is my carry weapon when I can ... summer months its primarily the ubiquitous j-frame. My 9mm has been relegated to night stand duty because I feel comfortable that my wife can handle it as well .... I've always said ... carry what works for you, don't get caught up in the bs ... a VERY well placed .22 round will do what a 45 will - threat neutralization. jes my 2 cents .. :cool:

#8 DeathwatchDoc

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:05 PM

Shot Placement is always the most important as so wisely noted above. And remember: they won't ask what size the round was when you put 2 in the heart and one in the head.
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#9 Klarktx

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:39 PM

I ring in with just about the same as all have mentioned.

My confidence in shot placement and factoring ballistics in self defense make my primary carry a Glock 19. I am asked by MANY new carry interested individuals about what gun, what round.....etc.
That's a very personal preference...but I see more and more end results being just what has already been said. 9mm is a lethal round.

And at the days end....without training and repetition, your carrying a Cruise Missile could be a useless idea.

Train your mind and muscle memory. Then when you feel you have it...train more.

Lastly...I would surely recommend at least one extra mag in anything you choose to CCW. An option for a FTF with a new mag after a clearance, could literally be all the difference you need beyond any round choice.

Good luck.

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#10 Scot McK

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:40 AM

I came to the same conclusions on about all of those points a bit back. I thought this was a good read on the subject. http://www.thebangsw.../the-fading-40/
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#11 mangeface

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:42 AM

I have to agree with a lot here. Having owned a Glock 17 and a Glock 22, I preferred the 17 due to follow up shots and more ammo.

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#12 Jersey0311

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

It's all about shot placement, as others have stated.

A miss with a .45 ACP is still a miss. A hit with a .380 is still a hit.

That said I don't own any 9mm handguns. Only .40/.45. Nothing against the caliber, as I carried it in the military (with ball ammo no less). I like the advantages of increased magazine capacity and cheaper ammunition. My next purchase may be a 9mm. However I am partial to the .40, as I shoot very well with it. Some say it's too snappy during recoil, but they probably can't shoot in the first place.

Proper application of the fundamentals will ensure success, whether you're shooting a .22LR or .50 from a SASR.
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#13 ARM_Alaska

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:06 PM

Proper application of the fundamentals will ensure success, whether you're shooting a .22LR or .50 from a SASR.


THIS!

So many times I will watch down the firing line at the local range and see some knucklehead boyfriend trying to teach his girl how to shoot.. She will be stiff legged, shoulders all the way back, raising the gun up to her face, torso arched backwards, one hand under the barrel like it's a small rifle, etc etc.. and it makes me want to walk up and slap the guy in the back of the head for setting her up for failure. LEARN YOUR FUNDAMENTALS PEOPLE! It could save your life some day! (and it makes you look like much less of a dumbass)
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#14 creding

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 05:06 AM

When the shit hits the fan, everything falls back to your training. The lower cost of 9mms allows for more training when cost is a serious issue. The more you can train, the better you shoot, regardless of caliber. Given what you've presented, I'd say 9mm. BIAS ALERT: I've never cared for the 40 cal much, because you're taking away a bit of what makes each of the 9 and 45 great to come up with a compromise. I carry a 9 and have a 45 for a house gun.

#15 FreeStyle1138

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:49 PM

All good points. I don't like the caliber debate. Each one has it's pro's and con's. I do agree with the mindset... a miss is a miss... a hit is a hit. Train to hit.
I think it's weapon dependant. I personally hate shooting my work issued Sig P229DAK (.40 cal)... but love shooting a G23 Gen4 that's my buddies. I have carried 9mm, .40 and .45 both open and concealed. And i've trained with all of them. I would say... if money is an issue... 9mm handsdown. Or maybe consider a 22LR conversion. But if you can, find a range that has the weapons your interested in and test them. If you don't like shooting it, you won't train. Or you will, but you won't enjoy it.





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