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Pepper Spray Carry - How do you?


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#1 insinuasian

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

Hello all,

I am thinking about starting to carry a keyring sized canister of pepper spray (inferno cold steel).  It would attach to a key ring, however I am not entirely sure this would be the most ideal way to have to deploy the pepper spray if needed in a quick situation.  Granted I know that I will always have my keys on me.  Typically I carry my keys on a caribiner clipped to a belt loop.  I guess the pepper spray could also be clipped along with the keys to caribiner, but getting it out, up, and ready fast wouldn't be super fast.  Maybe if there was a type of quick release clip that could go between the spray and the keys.  Is there such a thing? Maybe carrying the spray separately in the pocket.  Perhaps on a loop of paracord for fast deployment.

 

I do have a larger size can (2.5oz), but I carry that from time to time in a belt holster.  Its not really super "concealable".

 

How do you carry your keyring pepper spray?


Edited by insinuasian, 16 May 2014 - 10:28 PM.


#2 mangeface

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:24 PM

Ah man we have like 2 or 3 threads with general discussion on pepper spray/OC spray/mace. I'll link the newest one and there's a link for another in the 2nd post.

http://itstactical.c...8-mace-for-edc/

You'll see that spray isn't really favored around here for a carry device as it's too much of a liability, unless you're in a state that basically has no firearms carry allowed. Most situations you would go for pepper spray you could probably go with lethal force, but if you shoot and kill an attacker and have pepper spray on you that you didn't use, a prosecutor is going to have a field day with that.

So in a nutshell, if you can carry a pistol, don't carry the pepper spray. If you can't and have to carry it, I would suggest carrying it in a belt holster. You won't have to worry about it getting tangled up in keys or being somewhere you wouldn't normally have it.

Edited by mangeface, 16 May 2014 - 11:25 PM.

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#3 B3dlam

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:36 AM

I carry bear spray in my fighting bag does that count? Having been sprayed it sucks but doesn't stop a determined attacker.
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#4 DeathwatchDoc

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:00 AM

That's basically where all ITS discussions of pepper spray end up, it hurts like hell, but if they really are determine/high/pissed off they will get to you anyway without much pause. Also, we usually all agree that at the end of it you will make the angry ones worse when you give them constant pain to think about.

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#5 DieselD

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:21 AM

Pepper spray is useless in my opinion.

I had a guy spray me to try and stop me from kicking his ass once. After grabbing my wife in places he shouldn't have and then ran his mouth.

Needless to say he got it worse for spraying me and really getting my adrenalin going full steam


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#6 DeathwatchDoc

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:10 AM

If you are anything towards your wife as I am towards mine, he was lucky to escape with the majority of his blood still contained by his cardiovascular system.
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#7 DieselD

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:16 AM

He was in serious condition Doc.

If it weren't for him spraying me I would have been charged with felonious assault  causing great bodily harm.


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#8 DeathwatchDoc

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:17 AM

+ 1 for his stupidity.
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#9 Joemetro

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Posted 25 May 2014 - 07:46 AM

The use of OC spray is very low on the use of force continuum, so if verbal commands don't work and your physical safety is being threatened you are justifies to use OC. Also non lethal your only going to incapacitate the adversary momentarily, get the highest concentration you can at least 10 percent. Your key ring is good as you should already have your keys in hand. You can have it hand without drawing undo attraction.

#10 OCtrainer

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:06 PM

All do respect, I'm not trolling or trying to flame, but this is some of the worst advice regarding pepper spray/OC I've come across on the internet. Full disclosure, I'm "in the business" of pepper spray. I am an OC instructor and also deal with pepper spray on the retail side of things. Anyone who says it "doesn't work on some people" or "I fought through it" doesn't fully understand what OC/pepper spray is supposed to do. There isn't a person on this planet who can take a faceful of pepper spray from a reputable brand and not have their eyes slam shut. If someone is sprayed with a quality product and that OC reaches the mucous membranes of the eyes, their eyes will close every single time, period. 

 

Regarding the OP's original question, there are break-away style keychains that will aid in releasing the pepper spray unit from your keys, car ignition, etc.

All the major manufacturers use these style keychains so it will be easy to find.



#11 mangeface

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

I took a full face of OC when I was in the Marines for training. The amount of hits I landed on the bag before I was incapacitated by it was plenty enough to knock the fuck out whoever sprayed me. A quick wipe will buy you a few more seconds if it's a direct hit in the eyes. And unless your attacker is flat out blind, he or she will most likely be abke to slam their eyes shut before the spray hits them. I don't see the usefulness of the stuff unless you're in a 'No Carry' state.

Check out some of the other threads we have here and you'll understand my stance on the stuff. Use in on my drunk and rowdy friends and that's where the line is drawn. I have a firearm when I'm in public and spray becomes a liability if I have to use it.
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#12 OCtrainer

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:56 PM

A few questions with your live exposure: 

  • What level spray were you hit with?
  • Stream or cone?
  • Did you know where the bag was located before you were sprayed?

A civilian who gets of a clean "shot" of OC into someone's face will (hopefully) move after spraying them. Unless the perp already has a hold of them, how are they going to know where to hit?



#13 mangeface

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

No clue what level the spray was, but it's the OC spray the military uses. I doubt they're going to purchase low grade junk when they're off buy $200 million fighters and $7 million tanks en masse.

It was a stream.

And yes, but no. They had like 6 Marines holding bags and after about 10 seconds yelled "attacker at _ o'clock" and I had to turn, get eyes on and engage. While punching the bag, I was being hit at with a padded baton so I also had to defend against it.

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#14 spenceman

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:07 PM

A few questions with your live exposure: 

  • What level spray were you hit with?
  • Stream or cone?
  • Did you know where the bag was located before you were sprayed?

A civilian who gets of a clean "shot" of OC into someone's face will (hopefully) move after spraying them. Unless the perp already has a hold of them, how are they going to know where to hit?

 

Unless they are an asshole sneaking up behind people and spraying them unawares, the sprayer will be seen by the sprayee. So knowing where the bag is, is a realistic thing. Obviously the person who sprays and then hauls ass away will have a better chance, but most people will hesitate or stand in awe of what they just did to another person. When going through CQB shooting packages, dudes are often scolded for admiring their work, in other words there is a natural tendency to get tunnel vision and hesitate. Also, I was under the impression that military/police grades of OC are considerably stronger than your average civilian market pepper sprays.That being said, YES there are people who aren't bothered by even the strong stuff. I've heard many accounts from MPs shooting a brown star cluster in their pants when some big dude doesn't sneeze at their OC. Which is why I'm a fan of the Taser. Tasers also have limitations, but also have the added benefit of a very intimidating sound.


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#15 OCtrainer

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:31 AM

No clue what level the spray was, but it's the OC spray the military uses. I doubt they're going to purchase low grade junk when they're off buy $200 million fighters and $7 million tanks en masse.

It was a stream.

And yes, but no. They had like 6 Marines holding bags and after about 10 seconds yelled "attacker at _ o'clock" and I had to turn, get eyes on and engage. While punching the bag, I was being hit at with a padded baton so I also had to defend against it.

 

 I'm sure it was quality stuff. However, when live exposures are done in the drills you describe, Level 1 (.33MC) sprays are used. Level 1 sprays are usually 1/3 of the strength of typical "civilian" OC. It usually goes like this: Close your eyes, hold your breath, then you are sprayed with a stream. Streams have virtually no affect on the lungs (unlike with a cone pattern). When you can affect the eyes AND the lungs, you just doubled your chances of the OC having the desired effect. If someone can't see or breathe properly, that give me a huge advantage to spray and run, or spray and transition to your next "move".


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#16 OCtrainer

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:40 AM

Unless they are an asshole sneaking up behind people and spraying them unawares, the sprayer will be seen by the sprayee. So knowing where the bag is, is a realistic thing. Obviously the person who sprays and then hauls ass away will have a better chance, but most people will hesitate or stand in awe of what they just did to another person. When going through CQB shooting packages, dudes are often scolded for admiring their work, in other words there is a natural tendency to get tunnel vision and hesitate. Also, I was under the impression that military/police grades of OC are considerably stronger than your average civilian market pepper sprays.That being said, YES there are people who aren't bothered by even the strong stuff. I've heard many accounts from MPs shooting a brown star cluster in their pants when some big dude doesn't sneeze at their OC. Which is why I'm a fan of the Taser. Tasers also have limitations, but also have the added benefit of a very intimidating sound.

 

I appreciate your take on this subject. I agree 100% that fight or flight syndrome will cause most folks to freeze and admire their work, But, if a person is trained in proper OC deployment with good situation awareness, sprays someone with Level III spray, the fight is all but over. Unless they are in the corner of a dark alley or pinned up against a wall in the corner of a bar, they will spray and move. If you can't see or breathe you are not going to know were the hell the person who just sprayed you went. 

 

I hear you on the Taser, they are very effective. Unfortunately, prohibited many places.



#17 OCtrainer

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:52 AM

Take a look at this video. Spray and move and it's all over.

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=YhZvvR1Xx-w

 

 



#18 DieselD

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:11 AM

You can be trained in any form of self defense or evasion.

 

Training is nothing without the proper mindset.
Situational awareness comes with experience of situations and how to handle them.

Without this most training is totally useless, if one can not be calm when needed or aware and level headed when needed then the situation is in their control

 

I've been sprayed with spray used by LEO's and still was able to put in one hell if a fight before it took effect.

Note: this was in a training situation.


Edited by DieselD, 25 July 2014 - 06:12 AM.

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#19 Davis

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:38 AM

I'm going to weigh in here... I think the argument can easily be made that OC sprays can be an effective self defense tool if the user is trained and using a "quality" OC product.

 

That said, you should prioritize your self defense weapons/tools, meaning, if you can carry a gun always do that first and if you are carrying a gun do not carry a taser or OC spray for all the reasons that Mange mentioned above. If you absolutely cannot carry a gun, then carry a taser (a real one, not some 99 cent store POS), and if you live someplace that restricts or prohibits the use of tasers, then OC spray would be a better than nothing solution in my opinion.

 

I have been sprayed with OC... it sucked! I have been tasered... it sucked more! I have NOT been shot, but if I were a gambling man I would wager a lot that it would suck oh so more than either of the latter.


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#20 mangeface

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:40 AM

I'm sure it was quality stuff. However, when live exposures are done in the drills you describe, Level 1 (.33MC) sprays are used. Level 1 sprays are usually 1/3 of the strength of typical "civilian" OC. It usually goes like this: Close your eyes, hold your breath, then you are sprayed with a stream. Streams have virtually no affect on the lungs (unlike with a cone pattern). When you can affect the eyes AND the lungs, you just doubled your chances of the OC having the desired effect. If someone can't see or breathe properly, that give me a huge advantage to spray and run, or spray and transition to your next "move".

You do make good valid points. But, I'm still going to stick with my stance on it being more of a liability than beneficial in MY case. I will use words to de-escalate a situation or walk away.

I would also like to thank you for not 'gunning an running'. I can't recall the amount of times someone throws in some type of input, bolts and will not engage in a discussion.
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