Jump to content


Photo

EDC E&E Tools and how to hide them


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 chief01

chief01

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:03 PM

Hey guys,

This is a two part questions.  We know ITS has an Urban E&E kit with different devices in it like small handcuff keys, ceramic razors, diamond cutter bars, button compass etc..., even lock picks like the small Bogota picks that can be carried and hidden can be part of this evasion kit.

 

My question or info I'm looking for is for a practical way to carry these very small handful of tools in a way that would not be detected if caught in a domestic, meaning in the US, critical incident or active shooter scenario where some of us might be taken or held without our consent for an undetermined amount of time.

 

The same question goes for part 2 but this time while traveling overseas, whether in a hostile / high threat area or not.  In this case, one might lose his shoes, shoelaces, belts, hats, even bracelets, and necklaces.  In this case our only hope would be that our captors don't strip us and give use a whole different set of clothes.  So barring this worst case scenario and having to give up all our clothing, how can we hide these items and be able to conveniently move them from clothing item to clothing item in a practical and effective manner so we can use them if need be.

 

The only way I know how to do it is to insert these E&E tools in different parts of our clothing that would be difficult to detection or lose,  just like in the military.

 

For example, I would always carry a very small flint rod at the very end of my hiking boots lace.  I replaced my laces with 550 cord, took out the last 2" of the inside strands and stuck the rod inside and remelted the end.  worked great.  BTW, I never use regular laces on my boots, I always use 550 cord instead and leave enough of it so I can wrap it twice around my boots before I tie them off.  It gives me a bit more cord to use if I need it.

 

Anyway any info would be great.

 

Thanks

Chief.

 


  • mlp2147 likes this

#2 mangeface

mangeface

    Salty Dog

  • Moderator
  • 2,599 posts
  • LocationOklahoma

Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:27 PM

I know there was a belt posted here that has a small pouch that you can hide things in. Can't remember what the name of it was though.
  • mlp2147 likes this

"I may walk among the sheep...but make no mistake, I am the sheepdog."
VQz5Nwz.png


#3 PsychoFish

PsychoFish

    Salty Dog

  • Plank Owner
  • 474 posts
  • LocationDusty Ole AZ

Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:38 PM

You're best bet. Buy multiple keys, hide them everywhere! My job for a year and a half was to find the drugs/weapons/tools (pretty useless as they just threw them over the fence, but there were still the retards that tried to hide it on their person!) the absolute BEST hiding place. Multiple areas. Spread that kit out to asana areas as possible. Under the soles of your shoe, behind a belt, cut a slit
In the material that covers your zipper, under your watch, in a hat. Etc. Large items are much easier to find, and (even during an emergency) im looking/searching you for large items. I'm looking for a gun, knife, phone, etc. Everything else I'll deal with later.

We used to tease an officer about her search techniques, but she'd always call me over and ask that I do a strop search, or get paperwork started for a cavity search. How she could feel things up "there" I have no idea. She searched fast, and it wasn't intrusive (I had her search me once to try to learn her ways; honest!) she was damn good at her job!!

Attached Files


  • Jersey0311 and mlp2147 like this
Posted Image
There's threats everywhere, and the world is draped in [Multicam]

#4 Jersey0311

Jersey0311

    Bullets and Bandages

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,021 posts
  • LocationNJ

Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:54 PM

You're best bet. Buy multiple keys, hide them everywhere! My job for a year and a half was to find the drugs/weapons/tools (pretty useless as they just threw them over the fence, but there were still the retards that tried to hide it on their person!) the absolute BEST hiding place. Multiple areas. Spread that kit out to asana areas as possible. Under the soles of your shoe, behind a belt, cut a slit
In the material that covers your zipper, under your watch, in a hat. Etc. Large items are much easier to find, and (even during an emergency) im looking/searching you for large items. I'm looking for a gun, knife, phone, etc. Everything else I'll deal with later.

We used to tease an officer about her search techniques, but she'd always call me over and ask that I do a strop search, or get paperwork started for a cavity search. How she could feel things up "there" I have no idea. She searched fast, and it wasn't intrusive (I had her search me once to try to learn her ways; honest!) she was damn good at her job!!

 

Man what agency gets you a gig like that? I need to apply there!

 

And brother I hope you're coming to DirtyTrigger's class in November on the 8th! Myself, spenceman, mangeface, plus Davis and DirtyTrigger obviously will be there representing!

 

End hijack!


  • PsychoFish likes this

TBL-2.png

In Memory Of Our Fallen - OEF - Afghanistan - Lima VIII

Rest Easy Brothers, We'll Take It From Here. We'll Keep The Light Burning.


#5 spenceman

spenceman

    Life Member

  • Plank Owner
  • 907 posts
  • LocationAZ

Posted 22 October 2014 - 05:57 PM

You're best bet. Buy multiple keys, hide them everywhere! My job for a year and a half was to find the drugs/weapons/tools (pretty useless as they just threw them over the fence, but there were still the retards that tried to hide it on their person!) the absolute BEST hiding place. Multiple areas. Spread that kit out to asana areas as possible. Under the soles of your shoe, behind a belt, cut a slit
In the material that covers your zipper, under your watch, in a hat. Etc. Large items are much easier to find, and (even during an emergency) im looking/searching you for large items. I'm looking for a gun, knife, phone, etc. Everything else I'll deal with later.

We used to tease an officer about her search techniques, but she'd always call me over and ask that I do a strop search, or get paperwork started for a cavity search. How she could feel things up "there" I have no idea. She searched fast, and it wasn't intrusive (I had her search me once to try to learn her ways; honest!) she was damn good at her job!!

 

Did she at least buy you dinner afterward?


  • mangeface and Davis like this

PlankOwnerSignatureAZ.gif FBI's Most Wanted for charges of serial thread hijacking.

I'm like a cheap wine. I get better the more you drink.


#6 PsychoFish

PsychoFish

    Salty Dog

  • Plank Owner
  • 474 posts
  • LocationDusty Ole AZ

Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:33 PM

Let me expand on this a bit as I got off track on just hiding tools.

First off, DON'T need the tools!
What I mean is before a trip, weeks, months before you go, hop on-line and do some recon. Use social media and look at the area you are going to. See what the locals are doing or wearing. Learn the customs (for instance tipping customs are VERY different in Italy than on the US. Our ways could be considered rude in some areas). Also wearing a nice pair of jeans and a button up shirt may be nice here, but in Norway you'll stick out as an American. The point is, blend in, and don't be a target.
Make sure you travel in groups, going to the bathroom? Take a buddy or two. Sure it'll look strange, but it's my common practice in good ole Mexico! Be aware, don't plan a trip to Afghanistan to "see the culture" or go hiking the Korean borders. Use your head a bit and don't put yourself in those positions.


Now, as for being detained after a major event. Without releasing some of Arizona's SOPs for major events I will say this. For active shooters the chance of being detained for a long time are not too realistic. Will you be ordered to shelter in place? Yep! So make sure you have a EDC bag with chargers for your phone, computer, snacks etc. Shelter in place can be for HOURS even after the event has been cleared. You will probably end up being held for further questioning on scene. You may be placed in restraints. Scratch that, you WILL probably be placed in zip ties by a secondary assault team. This will be temporary, if it even happens. The only reason I can see this happening is if you were in the same room that the gunman barricaded himself in. In you are down the hall, I highly doubt you'd be restrained, I've never trained to restrain in that situation.

As for a dirty bomb, the ONLY time you would be restrained in that situation again, is if you were not following orders. Such as trying to force your way INTO the area. I can see you being restrained and removed.

If it was a door to door confiscation, then I really hope you live in a "free" state. It's been discussed, in the locker rooms, not many will show up for one of those details....

Edited by PsychoFish, 22 October 2014 - 06:44 PM.

  • iExpresso, Davis, Jersey0311 and 2 others like this
Posted Image
There's threats everywhere, and the world is draped in [Multicam]

#7 PsychoFish

PsychoFish

    Salty Dog

  • Plank Owner
  • 474 posts
  • LocationDusty Ole AZ

Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:37 PM

Man what agency gets you a gig like that? I need to apply there!

And brother I hope you're coming to DirtyTrigger's class in November on the 8th! Myself, spenceman, mangeface, plus Davis and DirtyTrigger obviously will be there representing!

End hijack!


Shhhh!! These walls have ears!!! But yes, I'm trying to currently lay low, using some of my days off to work at my boss' house on some of his toys and am really hoping I can call in a tiny favor of switching my days off so I can have that day off! I need to scratch that trigger finger a little bit!!

Did she at least buy you dinner afterward?


Man I dont know how she did it! We'd be searching anywhere from two or three to over eighty people an hour. She was just as fast as the rest of us, but would find the most random items! Like I said, it wasn't an intrusive search, it was the same basic "academy pat search" that any agency teaches across the country. Somehow though, she had a gift at noticing something not being right! Her best, a young lady who had FOUR mini bottles of booze in her. When she walked out of the bathroom with them in the evidence bag I could have been knocked over with a feather! Hahahaha!

Edited by PsychoFish, 22 October 2014 - 06:43 PM.

  • iExpresso and Jersey0311 like this
Posted Image
There's threats everywhere, and the world is draped in [Multicam]

#8 Jersey0311

Jersey0311

    Bullets and Bandages

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,021 posts
  • LocationNJ

Posted 22 October 2014 - 06:50 PM

not many will show up for one of those details....

 

Believe it or not, a good portion of the LE guys I know in NJ are like this as well.

 

The only ones they told me to worry about were the ones that hated guns and dread the twice a year qualification, they'd be the first to jump on the jack booted thug bandwagon.

 

The local SWAT team though is a notable exception, and my friend on the team said that the whole team would miraculously come down with the "blue flu" if such an order was given. I thought I loved the 2A and guns. These guys recite the cycle of operations every time they step out of their vehicles! :P


Edited by Jersey0311, 22 October 2014 - 06:51 PM.

  • iExpresso, Davis and mlp2147 like this

TBL-2.png

In Memory Of Our Fallen - OEF - Afghanistan - Lima VIII

Rest Easy Brothers, We'll Take It From Here. We'll Keep The Light Burning.


#9 smokey

smokey

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 161 posts
  • LocationNorthern Utah

Posted 22 October 2014 - 10:38 PM

http://gearward.com/...oducts/a-k-band

 

This is one thing to consider if you wear a watch. A bit of bike inner tube around your watch band will conceal some basic items. Not so great against pro's but you never know.


  • Jersey0311 and mlp2147 like this

#10 chief01

chief01

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 23 October 2014 - 09:39 AM

Let me expand on this a bit as I got off track on just hiding tools.

First off, DON'T need the tools!
What I mean is before a trip, weeks, months before you go, hop on-line and do some recon. Use social media and look at the area you are going to. See what the locals are doing or wearing. Learn the customs (for instance tipping customs are VERY different in Italy than on the US. Our ways could be considered rude in some areas). Also wearing a nice pair of jeans and a button up shirt may be nice here, but in Norway you'll stick out as an American. The point is, blend in, and don't be a target.
Make sure you travel in groups, going to the bathroom? Take a buddy or two. Sure it'll look strange, but it's my common practice in good ole Mexico! Be aware, don't plan a trip to Afghanistan to "see the culture" or go hiking the Korean borders. Use your head a bit and don't put yourself in those positions.


Now, as for being detained after a major event. Without releasing some of Arizona's SOPs for major events I will say this. For active shooters the chance of being detained for a long time are not too realistic. Will you be ordered to shelter in place? Yep! So make sure you have a EDC bag with chargers for your phone, computer, snacks etc. Shelter in place can be for HOURS even after the event has been cleared. You will probably end up being held for further questioning on scene. You may be placed in restraints. Scratch that, you WILL probably be placed in zip ties by a secondary assault team. This will be temporary, if it even happens. The only reason I can see this happening is if you were in the same room that the gunman barricaded himself in. In you are down the hall, I highly doubt you'd be restrained, I've never trained to restrain in that situation.

As for a dirty bomb, the ONLY time you would be restrained in that situation again, is if you were not following orders. Such as trying to force your way INTO the area. I can see you being restrained and removed.

If it was a door to door confiscation, then I really hope you live in a "free" state. It's been discussed, in the locker rooms, not many will show up for one of those details....

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.  You touched on some of the points i already cover when I travel.  My old work had me traveling to some really questionable places and kidnapping and robbery was always a threat.  In some cases we could be armed in other not, put that's another conversation.

 

What I would do is just like you mentioned, I would pull up all kinds of intel on on the area, including crime ares like were turists would get hit, what the bad guys usually would look to to do and take.  I would also memorize the location of the US Embassy and phone numbers.  IMO memorizing he stuff is critical, nothing worst that having a window open for possible rescue or contact with friendlies and not remember a number or place.

If traveling with the wife I would "TRY" insert roll eyes here, to get her to do the same in case we got seperated, that in itself was a mission. LOLOL!!! anyway.

 

But I agree with you and I think you pretty much nailed it in the head, bending in and travel;ing under the radar coup;oed with keeping your head on a swivel is key to getting in to a bad situation. 

 

I know you said not neding tool but I do think in some situations some items can help, again situation will dictate.  With that said I think having multiple items in a few coulple common items of travel clothing would be a good idea.  Much easier than moving things around, every time i change pants, shits, etc etc.....

 

Thanks for the reply.


Edited by chief01, 23 October 2014 - 09:40 AM.


#11 PsychoFish

PsychoFish

    Salty Dog

  • Plank Owner
  • 474 posts
  • LocationDusty Ole AZ

Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:27 PM

Oh no I agree, buy the tools, buy multiple of the tools, and hide them everywhere! Just plan on not having them. As I type this, I have no less than four knives (or improvised knives) on me, too many handcuff keys to count (both on personal keys, work keys, clipped to my uniform, on my watch, in my bags, on my boots etc. (Sometimes I forget I have them on me and it gets interesting when we go to court for cases!!)


  • iExpresso likes this
Posted Image
There's threats everywhere, and the world is draped in [Multicam]

#12 chief01

chief01

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:52 PM

I know exactelly with the concept of haing but plan on not having, for multiple reasons!! LOL. Not to digress but if we were talking about something electonic, battieries could be dead, unit shit the bed, bad comms for WHATEVER reason, solar flare, terrain you name it. 

It's why its so important to reallly know and understand the basic and the old ways of doing things.  Technology and tools are great but when murphy shows his ugly face you better have a plan be or have payed attenting in class or the field when when learning how to do something with out said technology.

 

Again thanks PsychoFish.   Be safe out there, watch your six and talk to you soon.

 

R.



#13 redsol1

redsol1

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 480 posts
  • LocationShenandoa Valley Virginia

Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:16 AM

in addition to what's above, check out Redteams.net. They have a lot of posts on what they use when doing covert recons. could have some good ideas.

 

La'


Step 1: Unfuck your gear Step 2: Unfuck your buddy Step 3: Unfuck yourself In that order.
— 3 Steps to Being a Team Player (Via Redteams.net)
Posted Image

#14 chief01

chief01

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 27 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

thanks guys



#15 nroeber78

nroeber78

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 246 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 27 October 2014 - 12:50 PM

I know there was a belt posted here that has a small pouch that you can hide things in. Can't remember what the name of it was though.

 

I recalled the belt you're referencing too and I was board, so i searched it out ... .http://itstactical.c.../page-2?hl=belt looks like it was the SO Tech SERE Riggers Belt but the link posted to it, is dead ... 


Edited by nroeber78, 27 October 2014 - 01:45 PM.


#16 redsol1

redsol1

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 480 posts
  • LocationShenandoa Valley Virginia

Posted 27 October 2014 - 02:49 PM

I recalled the belt you're referencing too and I was board, so i searched it out ... .http://itstactical.c.../page-2?hl=belt looks like it was the SO Tech SERE Riggers Belt but the link posted to it, is dead ... 

 

 

Here you go

 

http://www.originals...g-size-36-to-44

 

La'


Step 1: Unfuck your gear Step 2: Unfuck your buddy Step 3: Unfuck yourself In that order.
— 3 Steps to Being a Team Player (Via Redteams.net)
Posted Image

#17 Corbs

Corbs

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 488 posts

Posted 27 October 2014 - 03:15 PM

Behind the leather label on jeans is a good one. Also shoelaces, shoe tongues, under insoles, near zippers, inside waistband on a loop. Use your imagination.


15466484298_865322dd97_n.jpg


#18 chief01

chief01

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 9 posts

Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:55 PM

Behind the leather label on jeans is a good one. Also shoelaces, shoe tongues, under insoles, near zippers, inside waistband on a loop. Use your imagination.

 

I would agree with all of these, the problem is depending on circumstance and location, anyone that knows what their doing will strip you of your shoes, laces, belts, even clothes, and give you a set of their own stuff.  What I'm mentioning here is more relevant overseas that just being caught in a bad situation here in the states.

Personally I really like the inside of the flap that covers the pants zipper.  With a little imagination you can glue or sew something there.

 

The other option I like is using Mole skin to stick something to a hidden area of your body.  Mole skin is similar in color to some skins and might be overlooked if asked to strip.  I would tend to guess someone might not to interested in sticking his hand just forward of the Gooch by your ba** sack. LOLOL!!  Obviously the items in questions would be very small.

Another are you can hide something is a mini flint rod in your nostril, wrap it in a small balloon and with a small string to close the balloon up the nostril it goes. Try to hide the string as far up as possible. It can be effective, I'm seen it done.



#19 Corbs

Corbs

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 488 posts

Posted 28 October 2014 - 03:24 PM

I'm presuming these ideas are for legitimate purposes, mainly working overseas in areas where kidnap is a threat, or where your work makes it one. Obviously any authority worth their salt will find these basic preparations, and then you'd be in more trouble than when you started.

In which case, they'll probably be utilised daily and therefore should be unobtrusive as possible. If you're certain enough that you'll be kidnapped that you're willing to shove a flint up your nose, maybe you should reconsider your plans.

Handily, most criminals don't think too hard, and would be unlikely to imagine you're prepared.

Edited by Corbs, 28 October 2014 - 03:25 PM.

  • Hidyn likes this

15466484298_865322dd97_n.jpg


#20 Hidyn

Hidyn

    Mate

  • Crew Leader
  • 85 posts
  • LocationCanada

Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:15 PM

If you're certain enough that you'll be kidnapped that you're willing to shove a flint up your nose, maybe you should reconsider your plans.


Even in context that totally made me laugh out loud, that was awesome!

Good ideas in this thread, I will be implementing them in the future! (I've developed a fascination with general E&E lately, and have recently escaped from my first 175lb zip tie like in the ITS video. Next is duct tape. But I'll be doing serious restraints, not the silly keep it all even 5-7 simple wrap junk like the websites)

Also, the guy who does scam school on youtube, while failing pretty hard at the zip tie/duct tape escape, has a good method for fabricating handcuff keys into the ends of your boot laces.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users