Jump to content


Photo

EDC vs. 1st Line

EDC 1st Line Primary Handgun

  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Thunder7

Thunder7

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 29 December 2014 - 12:12 PM

Do you consider your EDC to be your 1st line gear, or are those two separate things in your mind? This crossed my mind 'cause I had always looked at my EDC as my 1st line, but reading through this forum it seems like most people consider those two different things. What's your take? And if they are different for you, what is different between them?



#2 smokey

smokey

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 161 posts
  • LocationNorthern Utah

Posted 29 December 2014 - 01:40 PM

I see them as separate groups. My EDC doesn't change without good reason where my first line often changes. When I go out to shoot my first line will include a different holster, maybe a different multitool. If I go to do some bush craft practice in the mountains my first line will include something like a little survival kit or extra tinder. I see EDC as my general problem solving tools and 1st line as situation specific tools. I dont know if that is the proper definition but its just what I thought of when I read your post.



#3 pira114

pira114

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,195 posts
  • LocationSierra Nevadas

Posted 29 December 2014 - 07:50 PM

I look at them as separate.

EDC= Stuff I carry all the time no matter what. For everyday just in case scenarios.

First line= Mission specific. As in, I have a specific job to accomplish and these are my tools. Usually meaning work or training for me.

A lot of EDC and First line cross over, but I still view them as separate
  • Jersey0311 likes this

#4 MightyP

MightyP

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 699 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio

Posted 29 December 2014 - 08:51 PM

For me, EDC is a subset of 1st Line gear. So all my EDC is First Line, but not all my First Line gear is EDC. In most cases (going to work, church, date with the wife, etc) my EDC items are my First Line gear. When I get the chance to go hiking/camping or a handful of other fun things, my First Line gear changes.


  • Jersey0311 and Thunder7 like this

ITSSignature2.png

What I lack in knowledge & skill, I make up for with sarcasm & bad jokes.


#5 Thunder7

Thunder7

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:54 AM

Thanks! This helps a lot. I'm curious how you deal with the difference between 1st line and EDC if you are running a belt set-up like a battle belt or ALICE (see my post about ALICE in 2nd line forum). Do you take your EDC holster off and put it on the belt, or do you just move the gun/mags over to the belt as you put it on?



#6 AaronK

AaronK

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 1,070 posts
  • LocationWA

Posted 30 December 2014 - 07:55 PM

I have a battle belt. If I need it, my EDC holster and mag carrier come off. I specifically use easy on/off gear to facilitate this transition.

#7 pira114

pira114

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,195 posts
  • LocationSierra Nevadas

Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:15 PM

This is really going to depend on what you're doing.

For example, my concealed holsters are for just that. If I switch to a battle belt, it's a different holster.

If my mission required being covert (which it never has in my case) then I'd stay with basically my EDC setup.

Non weapon stuff either stays in a small pack or gets moved to the battle belt. Or chest harness. Or different pack. Or.......see what I mean?

I think you're over thinking this a bit.

EDC is not (to me) a main line battle set up. It's a concealed handgun with light, a spare mag, and a small backpack with shit that's nice to have if shit goes sideways when I'm off duty or not expecting much to happen. Like being stranded out of cell range in a snow storm (that sucks, trust me). Or maybe large civil unrest where I have to ditch the vehicle to get home.

First line is how you set up your gear if you're about to go on a specific mission. Then you set up your gear for THAT mission. With some stuff for unplanned events thrown in.

So, the answer to your original question is that the two are completely different. Some gear can cross over, but the concepts behind each are separate. If you trying to create and EDC and First Line without buying extra gear, that's tough.

First thing you need to do is define your basic mission for your First Line. That can be as simple as training classes. Then figure out what you want/need for EDC.

The old saying "mission drives the gear" is so true. Once you define your mission, aquire the gear for it. Good shit ain't cheap. But you don't have to spend thousands to have a great basic kit that you can expand on.

And learn from others. I've wasted quite a bit of money on crap I just didn't need for my realistic "mission". I bet a lot of people here know a great deal more than me about it as well. If you're not in the military or LE, I'd start with EDC of course.

Sorry if any of this sounded condescending. I don't know your background or what you already know or don't know. So I wrote it for the beginning perspective
  • spenceman, Jersey0311 and smokey like this

#8 pira114

pira114

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,195 posts
  • LocationSierra Nevadas

Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:19 PM

By the way, I'm glad you started this thread. I think a LOT of people confuse EDC and First Line. And if I'm wrong, I'm hoping someone will check me on it.

#9 Thunder7

Thunder7

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 31 December 2014 - 05:19 AM

No this is great info. I would fall into that camp that said my 1st line was my EDC and my 2nd line was my fighting load. Which now with your info, what is the difference between 1st and 2nd line if you only have your 1st line missions specific?

As far as my specific situation, I already have a fairly good EDC set up (still trying to find a mag carrier that I like) and I'm not Mil/LE but I do work near a high risk environment (across the street from a school and I do a lot of things on school property, but my main office is not, therefore I can carry in the office and North Carolina allows me to leave it in the car when I'm hop across the road). So my main use age would be for classes, as mentioned as well as home defense and to keep in the car for just in case. So quick on/off is a big point for me. That would be why I was getting hung up on the issue of gear crossover like my handgun/holster.

#10 spenceman

spenceman

    Life Member

  • Plank Owner
  • 907 posts
  • LocationAZ

Posted 31 December 2014 - 01:16 PM

So I've been working behind the scenes with a couple other guys in the forum on pretty much this exact concept. The main point of confusion is that people are trying to blend two worlds. In other words the 1st/2nd/3rd line concept is a military framework. Typically the 1st line is for walking around the COP/FOB or last ditch escape in a bad situation it traditionally consists of a battle belt and some other essentials in your pockets, 2nd Line is basically a patrolling loadout and is your body armor and rifle and so on, 3rd line is all the extra crap for longer term multi-day ops and will usually be a main pack and sleeping system, etc.Trying to translate that to civilian life isn't a direct process, since EDC and 1st line are sort of the same, but different. What's I've attempted to do is use the same concept but frame it around civilian life and change some terminology to (hopefuly) prevent confusion. So here's the gist of it.

 

 

Tier 0 At home in PJ's: home intruder, evacuation, etc.

Tier 1 Basics, out running errands, church, visiting friends

Tier 2 Enhanced - work/school tools/equipment included

Tier 3 12-hr. Hunt/Hike, day trip out of town Tier 4 72+hr. Camp/Hunt, cross country drive, etc

 

Basically each Tier should build on the last, going from Tier 1 to 2 may just be grabbing a back pack. Tier 2 to 3 should be a matter of quickly stripping out a few things from your normal pack and adding some prepacked drybags to your pack. If you don't normally carry a bag or pack,then leave one packed however you'd like. Going from Tier 3 to 4 can be as simple as strapping your normal bag to a larger pack.

 

 

0 Gets you no where, you're at home, drink your coffee then get your ass dressed

1 Gets you to Tier 2 2 Gets you to your car/home/Tier 3

3 Gets you home/to Tier 4, enough to survive an uncomfortable night (two at most)

4 Gets you away from home, and should sustain you for a few of days on your own

 

Tiers 2,3, and 4 can be adapted for combat or crisis© quickly, again you just grab the appropriate pre-staged gear for your situation to enhance your normal preparedness. For the most part, combat gear will be left in your car or truck because it's ridiculous to think you'll go grocery shopping with your battle belt on just because the terror alert is elevated.

 

 

2C Initial elevated threat, crime/ terror/ weather (Battle Belt)

3C 12-hr. Combat Patrol/Temp Evacuation (Armor/Chest rig and rifle)

4C 72+hr. Multi-Day Combat Ops/Survival Scenario (supplemental ammo, camoflauge, etc)

 

The whole point of this was to eliminate waste and duplication, I don't want 5-6 packs and their accompanying gear taking up space and costing money, when I can just scale up my normal life with only 1 or 2 packs. Also if I actually use and integrate this system daily, then I'll have the added benefit of "training" with it and being familiar with it by virtue of actually using it on a camping or hunting trip.

 

Ok, two final points. 1.)@Thunder7, ALICE gear is outdated, and not very functional for home defense or shooting classes. It's great at simply holding gear, but for fast access for reloads it's simply inadequate. But if you don't have anything else at the moment, it's better than nothing.

 

2.) The following is a link to a spreadsheet I am working on to help me plan/organize my gear loadout and purchases. It is not a complete inventory list, and is just a rough guideline; so don't tell me I need to include such-and-such piece of gear (chances are I've mentally accounted for it in one of the internal kits). If there is some serious capability I'm missing, feel free to recommend it. The spreadsheet is available for you to download and modify for your own specific situation, if you find it useful, then use it. If you don't like it, then don't use it.

 

Here it is: Spenceman's Scalable System Planner


Edited by spenceman, 31 December 2014 - 01:18 PM.

  • iExpresso, Psybain, Jersey0311 and 3 others like this

PlankOwnerSignatureAZ.gif FBI's Most Wanted for charges of serial thread hijacking.

I'm like a cheap wine. I get better the more you drink.


#11 Thunder7

Thunder7

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 22 posts

Posted 31 December 2014 - 08:17 PM

Now this is some great info. This makes more sense to me as a civilian and it adds another tier that is not generally there giving you more flexibility. I also like the idea of adding prepacked dry bags to the preceding levels to get you to the next line.

A question on the "c" tiers: would you pull out your 2c when you knew something might be up, and then you would wear that around the house and progress to 3c in the event something actually went down (ie. you live in Ferguson and knew the grand jury announcement was going to be released that night)?

#12 Corbs

Corbs

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 488 posts

Posted 31 December 2014 - 08:34 PM

Spence, I use a fairly similar system. For scaling up, in the previous iteration of my daily carry, I clipped a tactical tailor ROP (EDC Bag) to a Haglöfs backpack and set off. Works beautifully and looks factory.

Now, with my khard, I underslung a tough dry bag to grimlocs and carabiners. I'll try to get pics up.

15466484298_865322dd97_n.jpg


#13 spenceman

spenceman

    Life Member

  • Plank Owner
  • 907 posts
  • LocationAZ

Posted 31 December 2014 - 08:36 PM

Yeah you could wear it around the house or just have it within arms reach.

PlankOwnerSignatureAZ.gif FBI's Most Wanted for charges of serial thread hijacking.

I'm like a cheap wine. I get better the more you drink.


#14 Jersey0311

Jersey0311

    Bullets and Bandages

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,021 posts
  • LocationNJ

Posted 31 December 2014 - 09:01 PM

This is really going to depend on what you're doing.

For example, my concealed holsters are for just that. If I switch to a battle belt, it's a different holster.

If my mission required being covert (which it never has in my case) then I'd stay with basically my EDC setup.

Non weapon stuff either stays in a small pack or gets moved to the battle belt. Or chest harness. Or different pack. Or.......see what I mean?

I think you're over thinking this a bit.

EDC is not (to me) a main line battle set up. It's a concealed handgun with light, a spare mag, and a small backpack with shit that's nice to have if shit goes sideways when I'm off duty or not expecting much to happen. Like being stranded out of cell range in a snow storm (that sucks, trust me). Or maybe large civil unrest where I have to ditch the vehicle to get home.

First line is how you set up your gear if you're about to go on a specific mission. Then you set up your gear for THAT mission. With some stuff for unplanned events thrown in.

So, the answer to your original question is that the two are completely different. Some gear can cross over, but the concepts behind each are separate. If you trying to create and EDC and First Line without buying extra gear, that's tough.

First thing you need to do is define your basic mission for your First Line. That can be as simple as training classes. Then figure out what you want/need for EDC.

The old saying "mission drives the gear" is so true. Once you define your mission, aquire the gear for it. Good shit ain't cheap. But you don't have to spend thousands to have a great basic kit that you can expand on.

And learn from others. I've wasted quite a bit of money on crap I just didn't need for my realistic "mission". I bet a lot of people here know a great deal more than me about it as well. If you're not in the military or LE, I'd start with EDC of course.

Sorry if any of this sounded condescending. I don't know your background or what you already know or don't know. So I wrote it for the beginning perspective

 

Yep, been there done that. I'm happy I finally got an LE job, because the left over gear pile from the military can finally get some use!


  • Psybain likes this

TBL-2.png

In Memory Of Our Fallen - OEF - Afghanistan - Lima VIII

Rest Easy Brothers, We'll Take It From Here. We'll Keep The Light Burning.


#15 Jersey0311

Jersey0311

    Bullets and Bandages

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,021 posts
  • LocationNJ

Posted 31 December 2014 - 09:47 PM

Now this is some great info. This makes more sense to me as a civilian and it adds another tier that is not generally there giving you more flexibility. I also like the idea of adding prepacked dry bags to the preceding levels to get you to the next line.

A question on the "c" tiers: would you pull out your 2c when you knew something might be up, and then you would wear that around the house and progress to 3c in the event something actually went down (ie. you live in Ferguson and knew the grand jury announcement was going to be released that night)?

 

 

Yeah you could wear it around the house or just have it within arms reach.

 

I agree with spence.

 

A thought also is (if feasible) keep a "c" type bag/pack/whatever in your vehicle at all times. Not necessarily leaving a weapon in there, but stuff to support the weapon. This also adds as an instant enhancement should you need to immediately upgrade yourself from Tier 1 in a CCW situation involving your vehicle and gives you an additional source of ammo for those times where you're rolling with your 2/3/4c levels.


TBL-2.png

In Memory Of Our Fallen - OEF - Afghanistan - Lima VIII

Rest Easy Brothers, We'll Take It From Here. We'll Keep The Light Burning.


#16 Whyatt

Whyatt

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 14 posts

Posted 14 January 2015 - 01:48 PM

Spence hit it on the head with the Mil vs civi aspect of 1st,2nd and 3rd line definitions.

 

 

 For myself my EDC is GBH (Get back Home) where my other lines are waiting. Being military myself I have a 1/2/3 in my work place and at home, but if you look at them side by side they are like night and day. Quick comparison;

 

EDC-mil; multi- tool, long blade, rigger belt, pistol+bang.// EDC-civi: multi tool, glass breaker, EDC (discreet) belt,  light, fire, GBH pack (maps, water, food,FA)

1st line - mil: Admin pouch with TCCC, E&E, soft armor, primary+bang, Comms, nav, bayonet.// 1stline-civ: Battle belt w/ pistol IFAK, 1l water, 2 mags for primary weapon, bayonet or long blade.

2nd line mil: CIED, primary bang++, explosives, Tac Tailor MAV, Plates, 24h sustainment (water/food) etc // 2nd line civi - HSP D3 with primary round, full first aid kit,  disaster sustainment for 72h (road trip/ evac, that kind of thing)

3rd line is my LAV III mil side where civi side it is my house and property.

 

That all being said it is simple to say ”I have a 1/2/3 line “ that matches a template, but it is hard to really have your kit match what you want it, and need it, to do. Define that first and then worry about labeling things. Back to the OP, I see it all very fluid. I can do a 1+2, or a EDC+3. all depends.

.


  • iExpresso likes this

#17 Billbo

Billbo

    Landlubber

  • Crew Member
  • 7 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 16 January 2015 - 07:29 AM

Thank you Thunder7 for this question and thanks to spenceman for your  Spenceman's Scalable System Planner

 

I just reorganize my EDC lines.  :up:

Just searching for the right small "bag" or belt for the items of the first line - just in case I don't wear pants with enough or too small pouches. 


Edited by Billbo, 17 January 2015 - 06:52 AM.

Posted Image

#18 nroeber78

nroeber78

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 246 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Posted 22 January 2015 - 07:43 PM

 

 

Dude! this is awesome. Thanks for sharing it! 



#19 spenceman

spenceman

    Life Member

  • Plank Owner
  • 907 posts
  • LocationAZ

Posted 23 January 2015 - 03:07 PM

No problem man.


  • Jersey0311 likes this

PlankOwnerSignatureAZ.gif FBI's Most Wanted for charges of serial thread hijacking.

I'm like a cheap wine. I get better the more you drink.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: EDC, 1st Line, Primary, Handgun

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users