Jump to content


Photo

To rail or not to rail, EDC 9mm


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 15 August 2015 - 08:11 PM

As a followup to "Glockternatives" I'm still doing some searching around.  Went to a gun store today that had again a full size FN-S, Glock 19 and Glock 26, M&P 9mm Compact, Springfield XD-9c, and lo, and behold a CZ Rami.  All are priced such that price would not be the deciding factor.

 

Basically, I ruled out the XD, though I've liked them in the past.. something about the construction of the upper just seems unweildy to me.

I also ruled out the Glocks and S&W.  Surprising I didn't dislike the Glocks as I recall disliking them in the past, but I just didn't like them as well as the others.  Same for S&W.

 

I haven't shot any, but the field is so large, and all being "quality" guns I feel that narrowing my list as much as possible is probably a good thing.

 

My front runners after today are FN-S and CZ, with Sig 320 and HK30SK still in the running.  HK may not be competitive price wise, but I like the format.  SIg has the interchangeable components which is a neat idea, but not sure if it will have any real benefits for me.

 

From today's visit, my first handle of the CZ RAMI, I love this thing.  It has that feel of an old friend like I get from a 1911.  Full metal frame, just gives it a nice solid classic feel.

 

However the Rami does not have an accessory rail.  I don't know that there's much availability of IWB "tuckable" holsters that handle an attachment, but I liked the idea of a rail allowing me to quickly add a light/laser for a nighstand gun.  

 

There is a compact "rail" CZ but I believe it's somewhat larger and probably more expensive.

 

That and I still really like the FN-S which does have a rail.  Also striker vs hammer fired.. Striker seems a little "cleaner" to me for a carry gun, less snag points etc.

 

So as an honest question for a civilian carry gun, should I make the rail a "must have" thus taking the Rami off my list, or do most find it's not really a worthwhile feature for my use?



#2 DeathwatchDoc

DeathwatchDoc

    Salty Dog

  • Moderator
  • 1,936 posts
  • LocationAlabama

Posted 15 August 2015 - 08:18 PM

I like the option to use a WML on my carry gun.


89BccLb.png


#3 smokey

smokey

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 161 posts
  • LocationNorthern Utah

Posted 15 August 2015 - 08:46 PM

For me it comes down to is this my main pistol. I like the idea of a WML on my primary handgun in some sort of SHTF scenario. But if it's strictly a CCW gun and you have another dedicated pistol, I wouldn't worry about a rail.



#4 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 15 August 2015 - 09:21 PM

Thanks, sounds like the FN.

 

None of my other handguns have a rail either.  

 

Maybe someday one of these as a "clear the house to get to the long-guns" nightstand gun

http://cz-usa.com/pr...hts-18-rd-mags/  Looked at one of these today... That massive steel frame should have about 0 recoil, and as Boris the Blade says "Heavy is good, Heavy is reliable, and if it doesn't shot you can always hit him with it"

 

FN has all the right feels, in the modern polymer/striker fired package with the rail, also a smidgen cheaper but only by a box of ammo or so.

 

I've just plain wanted a CZ for quite a while, but it's looking like the FN is going to be a better "fit" for my use.



#5 pira114

pira114

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,195 posts
  • LocationSierra Nevadas

Posted 15 August 2015 - 10:24 PM

Just a thought. But if you're ever going to actually USE the pistol in a defensive manner, you have an obligation to identify the target. WMLs should be standard. Just my opinion
  • Sourdough, Jersey0311, DirtyTrigger and 1 other like this

#6 Sourdough

Sourdough

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 337 posts
  • LocationOn a Mountain, at the end of a logging trail, next too the creek, in a shack, on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska

Posted 16 August 2015 - 11:56 AM

It seems to me that "IF" you are even considering your need for a rail, is a clear statement that you feel it has value to you, or damn sure might have.

 

I don't have humans to deal with, but I live with a lot of bears. I can't function without WML. I have done a lot of testing of WML in total dark or even near total dark, and one issue I had not expected was that you can't see the sights with the light mounted on the bottom. Now I am speaking here of both rifles and handguns. It does allow you to see and point, but at some distance I need more certainty, so light/laser solves that issue for my needs.

 

Suggest you consider how the application of your new EDC tool might be needed in a non-urban environment post SHTF, or even camping or hunting.


  • HTEngineer likes this

#7 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 16 August 2015 - 01:08 PM

Well in a post shtf or other "planned" environment hopefully I'd have a long gun along for the ride.

That be surefire laser/light combo is what got me thinking

#8 Sourdough

Sourdough

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 337 posts
  • LocationOn a Mountain, at the end of a logging trail, next too the creek, in a shack, on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska

Posted 16 August 2015 - 03:06 PM

So here is a related question for anyone/everyone. What is the down side to having a rail......you don't have to use it.......??? The only down side I have found is on my Colt RailGun the rail is not adequately De-burred, and the sharp edges are hard on holsters, but I just use a short plactic ladder.



#9 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 16 August 2015 - 03:56 PM

Added weight/size is all I can think of.. Or the gun you want doesn't offer one.

#10 CrazyD

CrazyD

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 294 posts
  • LocationAbilene, TX

Posted 16 August 2015 - 07:29 PM

I just picked up the Sig p320c for my new carry. Outstanding handgun that fits my hand better then any other. 15+1 with rail for a WML addition later on. I've owned a carry model of most popular handguns and carried them at one point or another. My most recent carry was a Sig 1911 ultra. I'm actually looking forward to carrying the 320c and will do a review after a few months of carrying it. Want to get some trigger time first before making it my primary carry though.

itstactical.png

 

 "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his." - George Patton


#11 Silver Bullet

Silver Bullet

    Swabbie

  • Crew Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationPenn's Woods

Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:55 AM

  .......  So as an honest question for a civilian carry gun, should I make the rail a "must have" thus taking the Rami off my list, or do most find it's not really a worthwhile feature for my use?

 

A good question; and one that is generally poorly understood by the majority of IGF replies I've seen.  Here's the gist of it:  

 

If you're acting alone as an UNSUPPORTED SHOOTER then your light should NOT be attached to your weapon.  

 

If, on the other hand, you're a SUPPORTED SHOOTER who is acting in concert with a group of other shooters then mounting your tac light to your weapon and moving the both of them together - at the same time and in the same direction - is NOT a disadvantage.  

 

Unfortunately, and for whatever reasons, this seems to be a difficult lesson for far too many gunmen to learn!   :huh:  


Edited by Silver Bullet, 20 August 2015 - 06:57 AM.


#12 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:08 AM

A good question; and one that is generally poorly understood by the majority of IGF replies I've seen.  Here's the gist of it:  

 

If you're acting alone as an UNSUPPORTED SHOOTER then your light should NOT be attached to your weapon.  

 

If, on the other hand, you're a SUPPORTED SHOOTER who is acting in concert with a group of other shooters then mounting your tac light to your weapon and moving the both of them together - at the same time and in the same direction - is NOT a disadvantage.  

 

Unfortunately, and for whatever reasons, this seems to be a difficult lesson for far too many gunmen to learn!   :huh:  

 

Thanks for the response, and since you're in the minority can you expound a bit further?  (also what is IGF?)

 

Furthermore, WML versus no-light?  or WML + freehand light?

 

I see some logic in perhaps wanting to illuminate the situation before aiming, or even drawing, but if I don't have a 2nd light at all (or at least not one that can be drawn and aimed quickly), or if I still carried the 2nd light in addition to a WML?  

 

I'm leaning toward the FN anyway basically because I think I want a striker fire rather than hammer fire (less snag points for the unholster, though that's never been an issue with my 1911, I like the idea of keeping everything internal), 



#13 pira114

pira114

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,195 posts
  • LocationSierra Nevadas

Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:39 AM

 
 
If you're acting alone as an UNSUPPORTED SHOOTER then your light should NOT be attached to your weapon.  
 


I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. Can you explain why I'd want a light not mounted to my weapon in any situation?
  • HTEngineer likes this

#14 B3dlam

B3dlam

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 1,064 posts
  • LocationWarrenton, OR

Posted 20 August 2015 - 10:27 AM

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. Can you explain why I'd want a light not mounted to my weapon in any situation?

 

I'm in the same boat and would like to see a bit more explination here.  I definitely understand not wanting to have a WML as your only light source you should always have a handheld in addition to the light mounted on your weapon to prevent the proverbial searching for your keys in a parking lot with your pistol mounted light but I am not sure I see the reason to not have a light mounted to your pistol for concealed carry.  I don't currently have one as I have a G26 which doesnt come a rail but i have been considering upgrading to a G19 for more regular carry and mounting a light on it. 


itstacticalsig_zpsb04268f7.jpg


#15 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:17 AM

Following up to my last post and clarify (along with what others said) 

This is my EDC light (I just use the clip, removed the keyring)

http://www.streamlig...uct.html?pid=60

 

Handy and useful for illuminating dark places, but since it's twist-barrel on it's not something that would be quickly deployed with a sidearm in an emergency situation.  I have the standard surefire by my bed, but it's a little large for EDC for me..



#16 HTEngineer

HTEngineer

    Mate

  • Crew Leader
  • 69 posts

Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:28 AM

A good question; and one that is generally poorly understood by the majority of IGF replies I've seen.  Here's the gist of it:  

 

If you're acting alone as an UNSUPPORTED SHOOTER then your light should NOT be attached to your weapon.  

 

If, on the other hand, you're a SUPPORTED SHOOTER who is acting in concert with a group of other shooters then mounting your tac light to your weapon and moving the both of them together - at the same time and in the same direction - is NOT a disadvantage.  

 

Unfortunately, and for whatever reasons, this seems to be a difficult lesson for far too many gunmen to learn!   :huh:  

 

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out this as well.

 

I like my WML's and they serve a purpose. My G19 has the ability to attach one. I carry my G19 99% of the time without it. If I'm going someplace dark, or where there aren't a lot of lights having a carry gun with the option of a light is nice. I'm likely to only bring one gun traveling, so having the ability to attach one if I want to is a good compromise as I don't know where I'm going to find myself. Also, for movie theaters is another reason a WML might be a nice thing to have. Essentially, if you think you might need a light in a defensive situation and need a hand free, a WML fits the bill. It probably shouldn't be your search light, use a momentary handheld for that. But if something goes bump in the night, you have your family accounted for and you need a free hand for the kids or something, being able to target identify is really necessary. I would upgrade your EDC light. you can get nice single CR123 lights for ~$50, with a momentary tailcap, +200 lumens OTF. Take a low light shooting course. It will change how you look at things. In other words if this is going to be you daily carry and your HD gun and you plan on taking it out of the holster, putting the light on, and then repeating the process backwards in the morning go for it. If you hike, camp, especially overnight and it's going to be your sidearm, I would also suggest it. 

The RAMI is the subcompact steel gun, there is also the P-01 which is the Compact steel version which can host a wml. http://s117.photobuc...AG0099.jpg.html

 

http://cz-usa.com/pr...loy-14-rd-mags/



#17 Silver Bullet

Silver Bullet

    Swabbie

  • Crew Member
  • 47 posts
  • LocationPenn's Woods

Posted 20 August 2015 - 05:20 PM

Thanks for the response, and since you're in the minority can you expound a bit further?  (also what is IGF?)

 

Furthermore, WML versus no-light?  or WML + freehand light?

 

I see some logic in perhaps wanting to illuminate the situation before aiming, or even drawing, but if I don't have a 2nd light at all (or at least not one that can be drawn and aimed quickly), or if I still carried the 2nd light in addition to a WML?  

 

I'm leaning toward the FN anyway basically because I think I want a striker fire rather than hammer fire (less snag points for the unholster, though that's never been an issue with my 1911, I like the idea of keeping everything internal), 

 

Wow!  That’s a lot of responses; and all of them are very polite.  Tell ya what, I’ll do my best to cover all of the points that have been raised; so here we go:  

 

‘IGF’ = Internet Gun Forum.

 

I am, and I’m sure shall remain, a proponent of using a handheld weapon light whenever a gunman is operating alone.  Nothing I said was meant to imply that no tactical light should be used.  (I carry a Fenix TK-11, myself.)  

 

Personally, I completely fail to grasp the logic of making my pistol any slower, or anymore cumbersome than it already is; and, for reasons I’m not going to go into now, my usual mode of civilian carry is C-3.  

 

I’ve had this discussion, actually many times, on GlockTalk.  Some people get it, and will agree while I really have to say that most don’t.  A police officer who frequently works alone stated that, ‘He was on my side of the argument’ and would not deny himself (what he called) ‘the advantage of being able to send his beam in one direction while his muzzle remained free to point elsewhere.’  

 

One of the largest custom Glock builders on the board is a retired police officer.  By way of reply he posted that during the last several years he worked in law enforcement he had to follow a fleeing felon into a large dark building.  He shined his WML one way, he shined it another; and, ‘Bang!’ the pistol was suddenly shot out of his hands!  

 

It took another officer’s arrival to save his life and capture the criminal.  During a later interrogation the felon admitted that he had waited to shoot until the light was off him; and, then, he fired directly at the source of the light - Nice shot, huh!  (Think of all the custom Glocks that would have never been built if the felon had been a little shrewder, and fired foot, or so, behind the light source!)  

 

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this one. Can you explain why I'd want a light not mounted to my weapon in any situation?

 

Yes, I can.  In addition to what’s written above there are, also, other reasons:  Typical law enforcement AND military training teaches that a searches should be conducted, primarily, from the low ready weapon position.  (with the weapon held at 4:00 o’ clock)  

 

The reason, ‘Why’ a search or clearing exercise should be conducted in this way is to allow the searcher to be able to, ‘locate and assess’ all potential targets as quickly as possible.  If your weapon is held at the ready then it’s going to be slower and more difficult for you to, ‘assess’ (make a, ‘shoot/no shoot’ decision) any discovered possible target while half of that target’s body remains covered by your outstretched arms and weapon’s sights.  

 

I'm in the same boat and would like to see a bit more explination here.  I definitely understand not wanting to have a WML as your only light source you should always have a handheld in addition to the light mounted on your weapon to prevent the proverbial searching for your keys in a parking lot with your pistol mounted light but I am not sure I see the reason to not have a light mounted to your pistol for concealed carry.  I don't currently have one as I have a G26 which doesnt come a rail but i have been considering upgrading to a G19 for more regular carry and mounting a light on it. 

 

As already mentioned:  (1) Flexibility, (2) variable pointing directions, and (3) draw speed!  Many, but not all, pistol gunfights are actually a lot more like pistol ambushes than they are gunfights.  

 

If you’re a lone operator and you’re pursuing an armed and fleeing felon then - if he’s got more than, ‘half a brain’ or sufficient street experience - the moment your quarry realizes that you’re using a WML he’s going to know exactly what he has to do in order to stop the pursuit!  He’ll hold close to cover, allow you to approach, and wait for the light beam AND muzzle to point away from him before he opens fire.  It’s, more than likely that it won’t be you who gets out the first several shots - It’ll be your quarry, instead.  

 

THIS IS THE PRINCIPAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A, ‘SUPPORTED’, OR AN, ‘UNSUPPORTED’ SHOOTER!  A SUPPORT SHOOTER CAN AFFORD TO TAKE MORE RISKS THAN AN UNSUPPORTED SHOOTER CAN; AND USING A WML IS DEFINITELY ONE OF THOSE RISKS.

 

I'm having a hard time figuring out this as well.

 

I like my WML's and they serve a purpose. My G19 has the ability to attach one. I carry my G19 99% of the time without it. If I'm going someplace dark, or where there aren't a lot of lights having a carry gun with the option of a light is nice. I'm likely to only bring one gun traveling, so having the ability to attach one if I want to is a good compromise as I don't know where I'm going to find myself. Also, for movie theaters is another reason a WML might be a nice thing to have. Essentially, if you think you might need a light in a defensive situation and need a hand free, a WML fits the bill. It probably shouldn't be your search light, use a momentary handheld for that. But if something goes bump in the night, you have your family accounted for and you need a free hand for the kids or something, being able to target identify is really necessary. I would upgrade your EDC light. you can get nice single CR123 lights for ~$50, with a momentary tailcap, +200 lumens OTF. Take a low light shooting course. It will change how you look at things. In other words if this is going to be you daily carry and your HD gun and you plan on taking it out of the holster, putting the light on, and then repeating the process backwards in the morning go for it. If you hike, camp, especially overnight and it's going to be your sidearm, I would also suggest it. .......  

 

No doubt about it:  There is definitely a place in modern small arms methodology and technique for the use of tactical lights.  The question(s) I’ve raised here concern:  (1) Which type of either handheld, or weapon-mounted light to use, and (2) when to use it, 

 

TO YOUR GREATEST, SAFEST, AND MOST EFFECTIVE PERSONAL ADVANTAGE.  

 

I, also, carry either a G-19, or a G-21, and (as I’ve already indicated) a handheld Fenix tac light.  As for using a weapon-mounted light inside a darkened movie theater?  (Where did this come from …… the James Holmes massacre?)  I’ll only say that of all the things I might have done if I’d, somehow, been caught in James Holmes’, ‘target audience’ attempting to light him up with a WML is the very last thing I ever would have thought of!  

 

At the very least you’ve got to look for, ‘open lines and angles of fire’ while you wait for the audience to start ducking their heads.  You can very loudly shout, ‘Get down!’ while you’re waiting to fire; but drawing attention to myself by turning that light on?  Never!  

 

(I honestly believe that you’re chances of prevailing in a gunfight like the one James Holmes correctly anticipated would be less than 50/50 against you the moment you turned your light on; AND, everybody in your immediate seating area would be, ‘gone’ too!)

 

Hopefully, I’ve answered everyone's questions.  Thank you for your courtesy.  


Edited by Silver Bullet, 20 August 2015 - 05:21 PM.

  • CrazyD likes this

#18 CrazyD

CrazyD

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Leader
  • 294 posts
  • LocationAbilene, TX

Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:17 AM

I think for me, its the ability to shine my light in one direction while keeping my muzzle in another is what keeps me from using one. Now I may get one later on, I think their are times when its warranted and useful but I'll never be without my handheld.


itstactical.png

 

 "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his." - George Patton


#19 mackguy

mackguy

    Salty Dog

  • Crew Member
  • 460 posts
  • LocationLexington, NC

Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:39 AM

I would upgrade your EDC light. you can get nice single CR123 lights for ~$50, with a momentary tailcap, +200 lumens OTF. Take a low light shooting course. It will change how you look at things. In other words if this is going to be you daily carry and your HD gun and you plan on taking it out of the holster, putting the light on, and then repeating the process backwards in the morning go for it. If you hike, camp, especially overnight and it's going to be your sidearm, I would also suggest it. 

The RAMI is the subcompact steel gun, there is also the P-01 which is the Compact steel version which can host a wml. http://s117.photobuc...AG0099.jpg.html

 

http://cz-usa.com/pr...loy-14-rd-mags/

 

Any specific EDC light you'd recommend?  I saw a new small Surefire I liked until I saw it has the same twist barrel that my streamlight has.

 

I did see the P01 (not in person) and was intrigued, however it is measurably larger, and more importantly has a decocking lever rather than manual safety.. since my other two carry are a 1911 and S&W bodyguard, I want to keep the thumb safety so I can always have the action of disengage the safety when preparing to fire. I didn't see a P01 that offered a safety in place of the decock.

 

Wow!  That’s a lot of responses; and all of them are very polite.  Tell ya what, I’ll do my best to cover all of the points that have been raised; so here we go:  

 

‘IGF’ = Internet Gun Forum.

 

I am, and I’m sure shall remain, a proponent of using a handheld weapon light whenever a gunman is operating alone.  Nothing I said was meant to imply that no tactical light should be used.  (I carry a Fenix TK-11, myself.)  

 

Personally, I completely fail to grasp the logic of making my pistol any slower, or anymore cumbersome than it already is; and, for reasons I’m not going to go into now, my usual mode of civilian carry is C-3.  

 

I’ve had this discussion, actually many times, on GlockTalk.  Some people get it, and will agree while I really have to say that most don’t.  A police officer who frequently works alone stated that, ‘He was on my side of the argument’ and would not deny himself (what he called) ‘the advantage of being able to send his beam in one direction while his muzzle remained free to point elsewhere.’  

 

One of the largest custom Glock builders on the board is a retired police officer.  By way of reply he posted that during the last several years he worked in law enforcement he had to follow a fleeing felon into a large dark building.  He shined his WML one way, he shined it another; and, ‘Bang!’ the pistol was suddenly shot out of his hands!  

 

It took another officer’s arrival to save his life and capture the criminal.  During a later interrogation the felon admitted that he had waited to shoot until the light was off him; and, then, he fired directly at the source of the light - Nice shot, huh!  (Think of all the custom Glocks that would have never been built if the felon had been a little shrewder, and fired foot, or so, behind the light source!)  

 

 

Yes, I can.  In addition to what’s written above there are, also, other reasons:  Typical law enforcement AND military training teaches that a searches should be conducted, primarily, from the low ready weapon position.  (with the weapon held at 4:00 o’ clock)  

 

The reason, ‘Why’ a search or clearing exercise should be conducted in this way is to allow the searcher to be able to, ‘locate and assess’ all potential targets as quickly as possible.  If your weapon is held at the ready then it’s going to be slower and more difficult for you to, ‘assess’ (make a, ‘shoot/no shoot’ decision) any discovered possible target while half of that target’s body remains covered by your outstretched arms and weapon’s sights.  

 

 

As already mentioned:  (1) Flexibility, (2) variable pointing directions, and (3) draw speed!  Many, but not all, pistol gunfights are actually a lot more like pistol ambushes than they are gunfights.  

 

If you’re a lone operator and you’re pursuing an armed and fleeing felon then - if he’s got more than, ‘half a brain’ or sufficient street experience - the moment your quarry realizes that you’re using a WML he’s going to know exactly what he has to do in order to stop the pursuit!  He’ll hold close to cover, allow you to approach, and wait for the light beam AND muzzle to point away from him before he opens fire.  It’s, more than likely that it won’t be you who gets out the first several shots - It’ll be your quarry, instead.  

 

THIS IS THE PRINCIPAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING A, ‘SUPPORTED’, OR AN, ‘UNSUPPORTED’ SHOOTER!  A SUPPORT SHOOTER CAN AFFORD TO TAKE MORE RISKS THAN AN UNSUPPORTED SHOOTER CAN; AND USING A WML IS DEFINITELY ONE OF THOSE RISKS.

 

 

No doubt about it:  There is definitely a place in modern small arms methodology and technique for the use of tactical lights.  The question(s) I’ve raised here concern:  (1) Which type of either handheld, or weapon-mounted light to use, and (2) when to use it, 

 

TO YOUR GREATEST, SAFEST, AND MOST EFFECTIVE PERSONAL ADVANTAGE.  

 

I, also, carry either a G-19, or a G-21, and (as I’ve already indicated) a handheld Fenix tac light.  As for using a weapon-mounted light inside a darkened movie theater?  (Where did this come from …… the James Holmes massacre?)  I’ll only say that of all the things I might have done if I’d, somehow, been caught in James Holmes’, ‘target audience’ attempting to light him up with a WML is the very last thing I ever would have thought of!  

 

At the very least you’ve got to look for, ‘open lines and angles of fire’ while you wait for the audience to start ducking their heads.  You can very loudly shout, ‘Get down!’ while you’re waiting to fire; but drawing attention to myself by turning that light on?  Never!  

 

(I honestly believe that you’re chances of prevailing in a gunfight like the one James Holmes correctly anticipated would be less than 50/50 against you the moment you turned your light on; AND, everybody in your immediate seating area would be, ‘gone’ too!)

 

Hopefully, I’ve answered everyone's questions.  Thank you for your courtesy.  

 

 

I think for me, its the ability to shine my light in one direction while keeping my muzzle in another is what keeps me from using one. Now I may get one later on, I think their are times when its warranted and useful but I'll never be without my handheld.

 

I'm going to combine response to these two.

Silver Bullet, thanks for your well thought out response... 

In regard to polite responses, my experience is that this forum is many times removed from standard forums of any sort in terms of civility.  Most seem well informed, and the n00bs like me try to be honest when we don't know (thus me starting this thread for instance)  Even more remarkable is generally when someone states a strongly held belief or fact they often link to the (usually reliable/believable) source.  

 

Regarding the question at hand, thank you for the recommendation of a EDC light, I will see what that is.

 

I still want to clarify a few things based on your scenarios.

 

A) I'm a civilian CCH holder, not LEO, as such I see very little liklihood of me chasing a perp down a back alley late at night etc.. Of course "anything's possible" as I say, but the WML would be primarily for "stand your ground" in the home, or in an active self defense situation which would basically be between wherever we were and the car at night..   

 

B) I understand especially in my situation which would always be "surprise" that anything that artificially slows the draw is a detriment, but again if the alternative is to draw separate gun+light this seems like it would be slower?  The only WML I would consider would be something akin to this (not sure if anyone other than Surefire offers something this small?)

xc1_pistol.png

The main detriment I see is needing to find a holster that accommodates WML.

 

C) For the purpose of my question I can't imagine that I would consciously carry WML *instead* of an EDC light, however I have been known to forget my EDC light from time to time, if it ends up separated from the rest of my stuff somehow (forgot to take it out of yesterday's pants etc).. So again, my situation would be WML+EDCL,  unless i forgot my EDCL in which case my option is WML or no light.

 

Just wanted to clarify that I'm not asking about WML AS my EDCL, it would be in addition to..


  • HTEngineer and CrazyD like this

#20 Rulrofelves

Rulrofelves

    Mate

  • Crew Leader
  • 52 posts
  • LocationMid-California

Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:23 AM

I have been out of practice from carrying, since I live in Cali.  But my argument is sorta along the same lines as Mackguy.  Why not both?  Since the saying is one is none and two is one.  As I have seen throughout this forum, most of us carry a light with our EDC loadout anyway.  I understand the reluctancy to not get a weapon light, since that entails buying a new holster and all the issues and time associated with researching holsters.

 

This discussion seems to be to going down the road that some of us do not have experience or knowledge, and that is chasing perps and doing searches.  As it has been mentioned before, having a light not affixed to a weapon is a neccessity for most people's EDC kit.  No need to use the weapon light for looking for the key hole, etc...

 

I think having a stand alone light only is more beneficial than only having a weapon light, but again why not both?


"We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do
anything with nothing." Unknown




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users