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#1 nickb512

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:50 PM

So I understand the need for tactical gear and that everything needs to be tailored to a given situation, but it seems that some people have forgotten that discretion is key when you aren't on duty.  Every piece of clothing sold that has any hint of a tactical look to it instantly identifies the wearer as a priority target if something were to occur.  What good do your tactical kahkis from 5.11 do you if you are the first person to be taken out of the fight.  I know this seems like some sort of ridiculous rant but I just think it needs to be said that a lot of people out there need to cool it with their love of trying to look like they just stepped out of a chopper from some super secret op some where.No matter what people say my opinion is that a good pair of jeans and a solid cotton shirt is all the clothing a person needs for walking around the park or mall or wherever.  If you can't carry everything you need to carry in those then you have too much gear

#2 RealWoodsmen

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 03:43 PM

You see, I like to wear a MOLLE vest, tucked in 8 inch tac boots, fingerless carbon fiber knuckled gloves, and have a tac'd out AK slung over my shoulder. I don't get any weird looks at all...Just kidding. That would be ridiculous to actually wear that. I hear you, on this subject. I like to make a cross between the 2 categories. Instead of wearing low-end jeans or high-end tactical, reinforced BDUs, I wear Carharrtts, which are flannel lined, triple stiched, and extremely durable. They don't stick out at all, and a couple of my pairs look like dress pants. In a GOOD or SHTF situation, I would be fine, if not better, with my Carharrts than I would with jeans or tac pants. I have the ability to blend in with the normal looking construction of the pants, but also the sturdiness and ruggedness of tactical BDUs.On another note,You can wear shnazzy tactical shirts, underwear, underarmour, or whatever else UNDERNEATH a normal civvie sweather, or sports jacket, etc. Advantages are that you blend in completely, and you have a tactical lining in the event something goes wrong.
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#3 lbarretojr

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 08:13 AM

I agree completely, I go to a small Christan college in San Diego and the director of our on-campus "police" wears "shoot me pants" daily with a tactical jacket and boots. not to mention he carry's his Glock 17, 9mm in a Blackhawk holster so everyone can see. It drives me crazy. He's the only person who's allowed to carry a gun and everyone knows that he has one.. If I had plans to make an assault on campus and was scoping out the place I would know to shoot him first./wp-content/forum-smileys/anim_stick.gif

#4 Phish

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 06:53 AM

I agree with you completely, the key to survival is not to be noticed or stick out. Besides I could eleminated evil in a Florida gator hat, t-shirt and shorts just as easy as if I were wearing my tatical gear!!!/wp-content/forum-smileys/anim_beer.gif
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#5 nickb512

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 07:24 AM

Thank God I'm not alone on this.  I was finally pushed over the edge on this topic when I saw some schmuck at a craft store(I was there with my wife and not by choice).  The guy was wearing an OD green flight suit,  boots bloused, and had a tac vest on.  This guy had to also be at least 250lbs. standing at about 5'7".  I just think its sad that some people want so hard to be badass when it is so obvious that thye have never been nor will they ever be.

#6 RealWoodsmen

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 09:06 AM

Yeah, he probably wasn't MIL/LE. Could have been. Also could have been a re-enactor, or an air-softer/paintballer. Or he was just some fat American trying to be all awesome. When I am out working, I'm usually wearing my Navy gear, which consists of some navy blue BDUs, bloused tac boots, and a tucked in white shirt. Mind you, I rarely go out in public looking like that for the very reason this topic is covering. Only reason I would go out in that is if I was on an URBEX.
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#7 Kenny

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:05 AM

Yes, I have a couple pairs of 5.11 tactical pants. And, I wear them in public. And yes, one pair is even khaki. I am not a LEO, I just like the 5.11 cotton tactical pants. However, I don't wear them every day, I also wear jeans and some plain Wrangler cargo pants. As a "big boy" - I'm 5'10" and 250 lbs. (or more, thank you aunt Linda for the extra helping of stuffing last week) - I just like the fit of cargo pants. On a (somewhat) side note. RealWoodsmen mentioned not wearing his Navy gear out in public, and I totally agree with that. I remember when I was in the Marine Corps Reserves, regulations prohibited Marines from wearing BDU's in public. When I see troops in public - especially in the airport - I feel the same as lbarretojr when he sees the on-campus "police." They would be a prime target for terrorist attacks. lbarretojr
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#8 RealWoodsmen

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:29 AM

Nice mention, Kenny. Undoubtedly there have been a few hate-attacks against our Military in the airports, sometime in the past. Sure, I like BDUs, but I can get the same durability and tactility out of a pair of reinforced Carharrtts, and get a handshake out of it too. (anyone seen that commercial yet?)
"If at first you don’t succeed, call in an airstrike."

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#9 Scuba CN

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

I'm going to play devil's advocate for cargo/"tactical" pants like 5.11's. Some good points have been bought up about avoiding the obvious "tactical" look, and I understand that there is a time and place for certain gear. I also understand the reasoning behind keeping a low profile in order to keep from being shot first, but is it really such a high priority on a daily basis for a lot of us? I would imagine that there are times when those incredibly observant bad guys spot one of us prepared folk and figure on shooting us first because we are most likely armed, but for the most part aren't many criminals (meaning the common criminals that are dealt with most often) focused on committing the crime and getting away as opposed to scoping every person in the crowd to see if they have a tactical key-chain or a couple extra pockets on their pants? I have Tac Lite Pros that I wear quite often, and have owned Carhartt pants but seemed to always wish I had the extra pockets when I needed to get something out of my hands yet still have it accessible. For instance, the cargo pockets are much more convenient (and comfortable) for work gloves than trying to jam them into a back pocket that has a handkerchief, a couple screw drivers and a wrench. For the point about simply not wanting to be a target, is it really worth losing the utility of cargo/"tactical" pants out of the fear of getting shot? That seems no different than avoiding driving because you might get into an accident. Yes, MVA's do happen and can be fatal, but that doesn't mean you won't get hit while crossing the street, which would be akin to getting hit by a stray round while wearing some non-"tactical" low-profile pants. Crap happens, and it is nice to be prepared for it but I think we could be over-thinking the subject of whether a criminal is going to shoot someone based on the the number of pockets on their pants? Especially when you take into account the wannabe's previously mentioned and the fact that a lot of people wear cargo pants without any intention or interest in looking "tactical". For me, the utility and comfort of cargo's/"tactical" pants like 5.11's outweighs the feeling of wanting to blend in and hide in plain sight. On a slight side not, are there any situations you can think of where it might be better to look like a tacti-cool wannabe as opposed to a professional trying too hard to blend in? The campus "cop" that lbarretojr mentioned sounds like somebody who wear's "tactical" clothing because it is his "uniform" (just like the clothes real cops wear) and signifies that he is not just some shmoe wandering around campus. College campuses are free-fire zones anyway regardless of "shoot-me-pants". I wonder how many more Virginia Tech's are going to happen before the administrators figure out it is better to have lawfully armed students instead of unarmed moving targets. Retorts and thoughts?

Edited by Scuba CN, 29 December 2011 - 07:13 PM.


#10 RealWoodsmen

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 04:29 AM

"...have owned Carhartt pants but seemed to always wish I had the extra pockets when I needed to get something out of my hands yet still have it accessible. For instance, the cargo pockets are much more convenient (and comfortable) for work gloves than trying to jam them into a back pocket" Check this out: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_041AB146000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=18-106701696-2 "figure out it is better to have lawfully armed students instead of unarmed moving targets."Blame the person, not the gun. Good point. Here in NH, the laws are so relaxed. You can carry just about anything. Not sure on blade length, but any blade, including switchblades, are legal. I like to compare it to alcohol in America and Europe. In Europe, it's basically unrestricted (well, to a certain point) and people can have it whenever. There aren't too many people getting drunk and partying there. In American, it is rather restricted, as people normally don't drink it as children and value it as something "cool" or "special", and when they finally get their hands on it, they go wild. The more you restrict something, the more people want it, and will then abuse it.
"If at first you don’t succeed, call in an airstrike."

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#11 Utini420

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:31 AM

I'll come in on the Devil's Advocate side of this, as well.  I've been wearing black and earth-tone BDUs, ACUs, and other generally baggy paramilitary lookin' cargo pants since high-school.  I literally don't own any jeans, I've only got two pair of non-cargo pocket dress pants, and on weekends I wear camo as often as not.  Most of the time I resist the urge to blouse them on my old-school combat boots, but sometimes I give in to temptation.  I don't strut about in a tac vest, but I have been known to show up with a pretty hefty Bat Belt (my friend's have been calling whatever load out I wear as my Bat Belt for years; it all started as ALICE, most of the time it's plane leather geek gear, and these days it's sometimes MOLLE, situation dictating). Then again, the pony tail half way down my back pretty well dispels any notion that I'm active duty service, though down here in Alabama I catch as much grief for being a "hippie" (which I'm not) as any serviceman might get in California -- blending in and not attracting attention was never part of the program anyway..  And being 6 foot, 185 doesn't hurt nothin'.  But at the end of the day, nine times out of ten I don't look like a PMC, I look like an IT guy, which I am.  And if I let 'er rip on the weekend and go out to play in head to toe MultiCam covered in MOLLE with combats showing and a 80 lb. ruck for a hike in the local State Park, screw anyone who doesn't like it, they just be jealous! /wp-content/forum-smileys/icon_cool.gif
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#12 Scuba CN

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

RealWoodsmen said:

"...have owned Carhartt pants but seemed to always wish I had the extra pockets when I needed to get something out of my hands yet still have it accessible. For instance, the cargo pockets are much more convenient (and comfortable) for work gloves than trying to jam them into a back pocket" Check this out: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_041AB146000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=18-106701696-2 "figure out it is better to have lawfully armed students instead of unarmed moving targets."Blame the person, not the gun. Good point. Here in NH, the laws are so relaxed. You can carry just about anything. Not sure on blade length, but any blade, including switchblades, are legal. I like to compare it to alcohol in America and Europe. In Europe, it's basically unrestricted (well, to a certain point) and people can have it whenever. There aren't too many people getting drunk and partying there. In American, it is rather restricted, as people normally don't drink it as children and value it as something "cool" or "special", and when they finally get their hands on it, they go wild. The more you restrict something, the more people want it, and will then abuse it.

I figured Carhartt would come out with cargo's eventually, but at $80 I can buy two pairs of 5.11's. Absolutely, guns aren't capable of wanting to shoot someone or pulling their own trigger, and as far as I know we can't convict a gun of committing a crime so there is no logical way to blame the gun. I agree with your point about how restricted items end up more popular and abused than if they were unrestricted. Personally, I have no interest in spending my money to lose all memory of one night and ending up sick as a dog with a killer headache the next morning. The forbidden fruit factor just doesn't have any appeal for something like alcohol and I couldn't care less about whether I am seen as "cool".

#13 RealWoodsmen

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 04:30 AM

Utini, that post was hilarious. I don't own a single pair of jeans either. All my stuff is a dark greenish-brownish or greenish-greyish. All stuff that blends in but doesn't stand out. "screw anyone who doesn't like it, they just be jealous!" Haha, that's funny.Scuba, could you send me a link or two for those 5.11s? Next pair of pants is probably going to be those. I also agree with you about the part about "being cool". I can have more fun and feel better by going on a hike with one of my buds than going out to a bar with one of my buds.
"If at first you don’t succeed, call in an airstrike."

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#14 Scuba CN

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 05:25 AM

Sure thing. Check PM's

#15 RealWoodsmen

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 05:55 AM

Utini, that post was hilarious. I don't own a single pair of jeans either. All my stuff is a dark greenish-brownish or greenish-greyish. All stuff that blends in but doesn't stand out. "screw anyone who doesn't like it, they just be jealous!" Haha, that's funny.Scuba, could you send me a link or two for those 5.11s? Next pair of pants is probably going to be those. I also agree with you about the part about "being cool". I can have more fun and feel better by going on a hike with one of my buds than going out to a bar with one of my buds.
"If at first you don’t succeed, call in an airstrike."

Semper Fi, do or die.

#16 LaevusLevus

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 09:58 AM

Maybe its where I live (southern IN) or maybe Im missing something. But Old Navy probably sells more cargo pants/shorts than I can fathom. Everybody wears them. They are what I wear for work, what I call "business very casual". I wear a short sleeve polo and some keen mids. I hope I dont stick out. Most of them are tan or brown come to think of it.
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#17 lbarretojr

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:21 PM

Scuba CN said:

The campus "cop" that lbarretojr mentioned sounds like somebody who wear's "tactical" clothing because it is his "uniform" (just like the clothes real cops wear) and signifies that he is not just some shmoe wandering around campus. College campuses are free-fire zones anyway regardless of "shoot-me-pants". I wonder how many more Virginia Tech's are going to happen before the administrators figure out it is better to have lawfully armed students instead of unarmed moving targets. 

 I'd rather him look like some shmoe that is wandering around, a presence is good but you don't have to show all your cards, if you only have one LEO carrying, conceal it. Make them think there's no one with a gun. Having that surprise in your back pocket helps. I agree arm some of us students who can use and know when not to use a weapon.A LEO friend of mine gave me some great advice: Out of Sight, Out of Mind. If you can't see it, you won't think about it. When it comes to wearing tactical clothing and gear it becomes excessive. I'm all for the cargo pants and contractor hats, just don't allow that to be the only thing you own and wear, switch it up. I have a Condor MOLLE pack as my back pack for school. It's okay to have these things just control it. 

 


Edited by lbarretojr, 01 January 2012 - 09:31 PM.


#18 Wardy

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:02 PM

No matter what people say my opinion is that a good pair of jeans and a solid cotton shirt is all the clothing a person needs for walking around the park or mall or wherever.  If you can't carry everything you need to carry in those then you have too much gear
 I love this because it's so true.  Where I work we have issues with guy augmenting issued kit with to much "tacticool" and it results in them being identifiable in the crowd.  And I'm not just talking about simple things, like gloves, boots and eyepro.  I even understand the requirement for a chest rig or plate carrier that aids in accomplishing this mission, if it doesn't set you apart from the herd.  I saw this knowing I personally suffer from Shiny Kit Syndrome (SKS) but not so bad I look completely different from the rest of the guys.  There also come a realization that you need to prep for the mission or task at hand and if it's a choice between a second shiny drop leg or the extra ammo, batteries, and mission specific gear for your team. The team should win out over extra 30 lbs of retiredness you think you can't live without. I'll use the example of a guy we had who brought five holsters with him.  One normal drop leg, one high ride drop leg, one belt holster, one for his chest rig and one shoulder rig.  So at this point he can now carry every pistol the team had but can't transition from his primary without snagging on one of them or he would have to make the guys wait for him to change over from one to other waisting time.  He also had two wpns lights for primary three optics kits and a couple different grips…. and a partridge in a pair tree.  On top of that his "rigs" were the wrong colour to match up with the team and he had all the high speed shirts you could buy.  Basically he had more money in kit then I do my truck and took longer to get dressed and pack then my wife. And it's probably been said already. But no amount of cool gear or gucci kit will make up for a lack of real training and experience. Fight Light, Fight like you train and remember to check your batteries before you step off.

Edited by Wardy, 13 January 2012 - 12:05 PM.

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#19 IdahoMike

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:39 PM

Saying that just because a guy wears tactical brand clothing instantly identifies him as a target because he obviously is packing heat and ought not to be messed with is a fallacy.  It is the same as saying that just because a fella is wearing a Tapout shirt identifies him as an MMA expert, or that a pair of Wrangler jeans makes you a bull rider.   I do agree that if you can't fit everything you need to get you through the day in a shirt and pair of jeans, you have way too much stuff.  

Edited by IdahoMike, 14 January 2012 - 01:47 PM.

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#20 chris bennett

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:04 AM

This post really caught my eye... About a month ago I was out with the family and I stopped at the local book store and saw this other gentleman get out of an suv with his wife and 3 kids. He was wearing 5.11 pants, boots, and what "really" caught my eye was his 5.11 conceal carry vest. At the time I thought this was pretty dumb, in my mind I was thinking are you "really" trying to conceal?? There's only one reason someone would wear that! Sometime later we were talking in class about some of Dave Grossman's writing, and then I figured that most bad guys are opportunistic, they seek out the weak, someone unprepared. And I figured though this guy may look too "tacticool" what run of the mill bad guy is going to do anything to him because he "does" look like he's carrying. I wear 5.11 almost everday, I inherited them from my previous jobs and I just like the feel of them; However the rest of my woredrobe (sp?) is prett normal, t-shirt, light jacket mabe and my old desert boots; however after seeing that guy at the book store I thought about adding an EDC bag like a 5.11 maob to my apparel because I was thinking isn't there some sort of positive to wave a little flag saying that; yes I may be carring, and yes I do have some sort of training. To preventa crime happening to you or your family? Just my 2 cents.Cheers!




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