Knee Defender: Reclaim Your Precious Airplane Leg Room - ITS Tactical
 

Knee Defender: Reclaim Your Precious Airplane Leg Room

By Bryan Black

Knee Defender_001

While I’ll leave it up to your discretion if the Knee Defender from Gadget Duck offers a solution to an imminent threat, it has provided me with one while traveling. Allow me to explain.

About a year ago, I was sitting in coach and like most of you reading this article, cramped for space. I’m typically very productive when I fly and wind up knocking out a bunch of writing on my MacBook Pro that always travels with me.

It was during such a circumstance as this, when I nearly had my laptop screen crushed by an overzealous reclining passenger. I always take advantage of the tray table to set my laptop on, but ensure that I leave some space between my screen and the seat back, just in case.

Knee Defender_005

Mid-sentence into writing about an unknown topic, the seat in front of me flew back with such a force, that it trapped the top lid of my laptop in that small cutout where the tray table resides.

I quickly saw what was occurring and pulled my laptop out of the void, but not before I heard a small crunch. After collecting myself and realizing my laptop wasn’t harmed, I politely leaned into the aisle and tried to get the attention of the woman in the aisle seat in front of me.

“Excuse me,” I said calmly. “There’s really not a lot of room back here and I’m wondering if you’d consider moving your seat up?” I really wasn’t expecting a snarky reply, but it’s what I got. “What, I can’t put my seat back?” I saw her eyes roll and knew it wasn’t worth any further effort. I marked that down as yet another traveler without airplane etiquette and went back to work as best I could.

I’m sure there are many that will disagree with me, but I don’t put my seat back on flights, I just don’t think it’s fair to take up even more of someone’s space that they’ve paid for. Especially today, where more and more of it is disappearing. I believe in Airplane Etiquette and try to be as courteous to other passengers as possible. I also don’t think the seat in front of me is a handrail to grab onto when I get up out of my seat. Getting slingshotted isn’t fun.

After the near-death laptop experience, I started searching online for anything that might be able to help prevent future and sudden seat reclining. Little did I know that I wasn’t alone in my want to put a stop to the problem.

Knee Defender

Enter Gadget Duck and their product, Knee Defender. Consisting of two independent “clips” that use friction to hold onto the stays (or arms) of your tray table, they limit the ability of the seat in front of you from being able to recline.

Knee Defender_003

While you can press them all the way forward, or right up against the seat in front, you can slide them back a bit and still allow the seat in front of you to recline partially. You essentially create a buffer with this configuration.

Obviously, if your seat doesn’t have a tray table that can fold down from the seat in front of you, Knee Defender is ineffective. You also need to be Johnny-on-the-spot in order to hear the announcement that the plane has reached the required altitude to put your tray table down. This is also the announcement for the ability for the person in front of you to put their seat back, so you have to be ready.

Knee Defender 004

The Knee Defender looks to be made of a hard plastic, with a tough rubber molding around the part that clips onto the tray table stays. This hard rubber is what provides the friction needed for these to hold. The pair of Knee Defenders only weighs 2.2 oz. and can be nested inside of each other to save space for storage.

I’ve now used the Knee Defender on every flight I’ve been on within the last year and I’m happy to report that they work as advertised. I have to admit to smirking once or twice when a person in front of me continued to try everything they could to get their seat back. One of those times consisted of a guy getting pretty violent and throwing his back against the seat a few dozen times. His verbal acknowledgement of a struggle taking place up there, was fairly comical.

Knee Defender_006

You either agree with the invention by now, or are wondering how it’s legal to use the Knee Defender on a plane; maybe both. Well, the Gadget Duck website has the following statement from the FAA, as reported in the October 28, 2003 edition of The Washington Post:

“FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said the clips were not against federal aviation rules as long as they weren’t used during taxiing, takeoffs or landings.”

It should be noted that if a flight attendant is aware of the Knee Defender and asks you to remove it, you should follow their instructions. Gadget Duck also notes that Knee Defender “isn’t made to hog space” and even offers a Courtesy Card that can be viewed and printed from their website. It seemed a bit passive-aggressive to me and I haven’t opted to use it. I’d personally be more offended by the Courtesy Card, than to think there was something wrong with the reclining function of my seat.

Knee Defender_002

So there you have it, protection from reclining airplane seats with Knee Defender. There’s quite a bit of documentation on the Gadget Duck website, if you’re up for reading more about it, but please feel free to leave any questions below in the comments and I’ll do my best to field them.

The Knee Defender is designed in the USA and manufactured in China.

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Discussion

  • Most of the true a-holes don’t even wait for the 10K foot signal, they just throw it back as soon as the stewardesses are no longer looking.  There’s actually a better way to deal with it.

    Ask politely, and then when they snark, start kicking.  Kick relentlessly.  “What, I can’t move around in my seat?  I’m tall.  You leaned your seat back into my legs.”  If that doesn’t get the message across, this will work — “We are going to spend the next xx hours with me behind YOU.  A can kick your chair, I can make all sorts of noises, I can even spend the whole flight breathing in your ear.  Do you REALLY want to find out how agonizing a long, annoying flight can be?”

    (I’ve never actually gotten to that point.  8-10 swift kicks generally gets the seat put back upright.)

    • MikeMaverick

      everlastingphelps You seem to be trolling. either that, or you actually are an incorrigible nuisance in real life. good day to you, sir.

    • JustFullOfTacticalDBags

      everlastingphelps What a baby you are.

    • notsure

      everlastingphelps You sound mean.

    • Ron

      Who cares. I don’t give a shit if I recline or you recline or if neither of us can recline. You don’t bother me if you knee my seat or “sling shot” me either. You all sound like a bunch of bitches and if I didn’t have to hear it, I wouldn’t give a shit if my kids cried too. Harden the fuck up.

  • Treebeard

    Considering my size, that is very tempting..

  • Bob_Kobb

    rickswift I love the idea. I admit I’m biased because i’m 6’2″ and have had blood clots and a pulmonary embolism. Can’t afford 1st class.

    • rickswift

      Bob_Kobb I’m also 6’2″ what I do is use my knee as a stopper when they first set it back, so there is resistance.

    • rickswift

      Bob_Kobb And anyone who manages to slam into my knee gets the “sling shot” BIG TIME every time I so much as shift in my seat. Heh

    • Bob_Kobb

      rickswift i just make sure I hip hit the back of their seat like a turning quarterhorse when I get up and stretch. God, I hate flying.

    • notsure

      @Bob_Kobb rickswift I really don’t mean to be rude, but if you’re too tall to be comfortable in an economy seat, knowing full well that the seat in front of you is meant to recline, then you can’t really afford to fly economy. It’s not a God-given right to fly.

      To be less harsh, in truth, there are many things you can do to make economy class work. Like asking the stewardess to have compassion on your seating requirements and help you swap seats with a bulkhead.

      Analogously, if an obese person sat next to me such that they wanted to raise the armrest between us and be partially in my seat, I’d apologize to them for their plight but nevertheless be firm that their discomfort being bound within just the seat they paid for doesn’t trump my comfort within the entire seat I paid for (including the reclining I paid for).

      Ask nicely as a favor for the person in front of you to not recline as much and your results will probably be pretty good.

  • freddytaul

    ITStactical those are pure genius!

  • BrannonLeBouef

    I do not understand how reclining a seat is “taking someone’s space they paid for”? We all have reclining seats. Therefore we all purchase the seats knowing of (and if you are smart assuming) someone will recline. If someone did something that was not available to someone else (like fat rolls rolling over into your seat), that is a different story. 

    As far as catching your laptop lid, I have had that happen before as well, and rather than try and blame it on someone doing what is an advertised benefit of the seat, I took responsibility for my lack of attention to detail and not pulling my laptop far enough up, especially since I know it is a potential issue on a flight. 

    I see these things as yet another physical example of thinking we can push our own wants and desires above those of others when we are all on the same field. 

    Pull this shit on me, and I will make sure there is enough of a scene to warrant further investigation. If for nothing else than the principle alone. 

    As far as kicking my seat intentionally… WAMFW

    • BrannonLeBouef Sure, tough guy.  You kick my ass, and then you go to federal prison with the nice Air Marshals waiting at the gate.  I’m sure that “he was kicking my seat” will get out of that attempted hijacking charge.

    • BrannonLeBouef

      everlastingphelps BrannonLeBouef Never said I would kick your ass. I am a little more intelligent than that . On top of the fact that i am slightly aware of airline security protocol, and how hotheaded you seem to be. I am sure you would be the one led out in cuffs. Especially since you seem to think you have the authority to dictate what others are capable of doing.

    • BrannonLeBouef everlastingphelps Right, because I don’t know the difference between annoying and felony.  All I have to do is get you worked up, hit the call button and then tell the stewardess calmy about how you are freaked out, and keep turning around in your seat and threatening me.

    • BrannonLeBouef

      everlastingphelps BrannonLeBouef Right, because there are not a unch of other people on the plane who see you for the liar you are and also noticed you kicking and slingshotting the seat like you said you would. 

      Look, just admit it, You are a hot head who posted something you would never do in real life and now you realize besides it making you an asshole, if done to the wrong person could make you either an incarcerate or injured asshole. 

      It is OK to admit you are wrong. It even happens to me every once in the while…. just not in this conversation with you, Captain Kick-aChair and then lie to a federal agent.

    • BrannonLeBouef everlastingphelps I never said anything about slingshoting the chair (not even sure what that is.)  I’ve only had this happen 3 times, and twice just mentioning it got a “sorry” and the chair put back to a more reasonable level.  The other time, a couple of knees and “I TOLD you that you put your chair back into my knees” solved it.

      Also, note that NOTHING in what I posted was a lie.  This is why you would lose this encounter.  I’m not complaining about people reclining on long and overnight flights.  I’m talking about the douche that is SO worn out from sitting at the gate for the last 30 minutes that he has to put his head in my lap for 65 minute flight.   Your seat reclines?  Great.  My knees can now reach it.  Deal with it or put it up where I can’t reach it.

    • green_vaccine

      everlastingphelps BrannonLeBouef 
      Phelps you’re a tool bag, sit in your chair and keep your knees to yourself.

    • Jimmy

      everlastingphelps BrannonLeBouef doucheroo

    • Isko

      BrannonLeBouef  “I see these things as yet another physical example of thinking we can push our own wants and desires above those of others when we are all on the same field”

      Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing when you slam your seat up to my face? That’s you thinking that your comfort is more important that the comfort of the fellow passenger sitting behind you. That’s you pushing your own wants and desires above those of others.

  • You amaze me. If I traveled a lot, I’d love to have these. But after just a few flights, I’d almost certainly have left it behind. I’ve actually got a strap that attaches my laptop bag to my larger carry on so I’ll only forget one if I forget the other.

    Making the color grey-beige was a clever move. As your pictures illustrate, that makes the device almost invisible. Even better, though terribly illegal, is what resistance movements in Europe did during WWII.
    First, the Brits created a device that’d mount near a train wheel. It would explode, blasting away the wheel,  a few seconds after a sudden transition from very bright to dark as when entering a tunnel, but not with a gradual change as at sunset.
    Second, underground groups installed the devices on the rail cranes that would be used to remove derailed trains from tunnels. 
    Third, the underground installed the devices on train cars. Soon after, the device blew up and the train derailed inside a tunnel, blocking the tracks. Then when the cranes arrived to fix that, they too were derailed inside the tunnel–creating a real mess.
    But the funniest part was that each device came is an official-looking label warning, in draconian terms, what would happen to anyone who removed the device.
    I don’t think the FAA would be too happy if the makers of this device had a similar label on their Knee Defenders.
    –Michael W. Perry, Chesterton on War and Peace

  • templar 6

    I fly allot of miles, I mean a whole bunch. This is a double edged sword. I pay for a seat, one that reclines. I fly at least 6 times a year overseas in excess of 10 hours on a plane. Not to mention at least another 8 times a year on domestic. I’m way more concerned about people traveling with screaming brats, obese people taking up part of my seat and no bathing stinking dirtbags. The shitty part of this is the same guy that buys this and complains like a bitch reclines his chair.

  • nDjinn

    Yes and no. I last used my laptop on a trans pacific flight just before the iPad came out. That was the reason I bought the iPad. My 17″ laptop just didn’t fit in couch class, no way no how.

  • John 417

    It’s pretty rude to put your seat back in coach.  And heaven help you if you try to have a civil conversation with somebody about giving you a bit of room so you can work.  For some reason I have a hacking cough that is miraculously cured when the seat in front of me is not reclining.  Go figure – the advances in medical science are truly amazing.

    • Jimmy

      John 417 ducheroo

  • bwahacker

    deadprogrammer wow. I have a 11″ Air pretty much just for airplanes. Just sit in first class if it’s so important to have space.

    • Blahblahblah

      @bwahacker So just because you can afford a 1200 laptop and very costly first class seats means everyone can?

  • bwahacker

    deadprogrammer ( I realize you didn’t write the blog or invent the product (right? 🙂 )

  • thiswildidea

    ITStactical polerstuff is the idea of engaging with whomever is sitting front of that out of reach? seems like this product builds walls

    • polerstuff

      thiswildidea i was just amused that someone actually made thise.

  • BrettScholten

    Great idea, will have to get a pair.

  • borderreporter

    ITStactical didn’t the people reclining pay for that bit of recline space? It’s unusable to me & I’m 6’2″, not bothered by a reclining seat

    • Fean0r

      I paid for x amount of legroom. Besides, most of the time my knees stop the seat on front reclining anyway.

    • notsure

      Fean0r You paid for x amount of legroom – whatever legroom is used up by the person in front of you who chooses to recline. It’s an option because people have the right to use it. If you have long legs, you can make the person in front of you aware and they will likely reduce their own comfort to accommodate you. Or tell the stewardess and they might accommodate too, depending on how full the flight is and how much time there is to swap people’s places.

  • Jimmy

    What a ducheroo.

  • flygracefully

    You can recline as soon as wheels are off the ground. You can also put your tray table down as soon as the wheels are off the ground…but tray tables cut into my personal space more than reclining seats do. I like the exit row because there is more space and usually the seat in front can’t recline. Saves me from a passive-aggressive war like this.

  • FrequentFlier

    If I ever noticed this stupid product on a seat back I would have it confiscated by the attendants until the end of the flight.  Since the offending passenger loves passive aggressive conflicts, I’ll ensure they ‘trip’ accidentally as they deplane.  I’m shocked to see this from Bryan.  

    I’m 6′, my business partner is 6’6.  We each fly 100k-150k+ miles/year, 70+% is coach class.  If you want to know proper etiquette here it is: Everyone should recline their seats fully.  

    Why? The exact volume of space you had ‘taken’ by the person reclining in front of you is regained by reclining your own seat.  Zero personal space is lost by anyone, but everyone is in a more comfortable seated position.

    If you’re over 6’7, explain it to the airline when you buy your ticket and they will assign you to a bulkhead/exit row with extra space between your row and the row in front of you.

    This is common sense, anyone that’s ever been on an airplane can figure this out by looking at how seats function and thinking for half a second instead of throwing an indignant ‘Mine, mine, MINE!’ passive-aggressive tantrum.

    • SeniorStew

      I’m a senior flight attendant. If I ever saw this or another passenger complained about it…I would tell the asshole using it to remove it immediately or he would be detained upon arrival.
      Space is THE most important factor on any flight. Go ahead and use this device but be aware of the consequences. If you think I will referee a fight over this “spacer”….
      The authorities will handle it. Ever hear of the charge “interfering with the duties of a crew member”? Go ahead and make my day…

    • durhamja

      SeniorStewSo,  allowing a passenger to press against the knees of the person sitting behind them falls into your duties ??  please…  ‘Sure You have better things to do.

    • Fean0r

      Ooh look, aren’t you important!
      If people get aggressive over this then fine, get the aggressor on either side detained. But if you get me detained for using it and refusing to back down because of an aggressive passenger in front of me then, as long as I don’t do or say anything aggressive myself, if you get me detained then you’ll have one helluva formal complaint on your hands. I’ll do my damndest to make sure it hurts your career. Bad.

    • SeniorStew illustrates why I’m delighted that I rarely have to fly. While I’ve never myself had problems with any flight attendant, senior or otherwise, it’s clear from SeniorStew’s remarks that some of them have the same authoritarian complex that some cops have, They think we, the passengers, exist simply to do as they dictate and for that they spout legalese about “interfering with the duties of a crew member,” as if anything they demand acquires the force of law.
      For several years I worked at a Seattle group home for drug addicts and at a homeless shelter in Wild West Alaska. I had to deal with people who were vastly more difficult and dangerous than anyone this senior flight attendant is likely to encounter. The people I had to handle had lethal weapons: knives, a case cutter with razor, and a heavy cast-iron frying pan. Those are problems no flight attendant has to fret with thanks to the TSA. And I did so by being calm and persuasive not by playing Clint Eastwood and spouting silly lines about “make my day.” If you want people to behave, treat them with respect.
      Next time I read a news story about something stupid a flight crew member does, I’ll bring to mind this SeniorStew who apparently thinks it is OK to call her paying passengers “assholes.” That’s grossly unprofessional. If I ran an airline, that one word would get her fired on the spot.
      Given her attitude, I suspect she (or perhaps he) creates far more problems than she solves. She should have retired a long time ago and taken on a job that doesn’t require working with people, much less the exhausted, much put-upon people forced to fly anywhere but in First-class.
      –Michael W. Perry, Chesterton on War and Peace

    • SeniorStew  SeniorStew has exactly one comment on the internet, and it’s this one.

      I think that BrannonLeBouef is playing with sock puppets.

    • SeniorStew  ” If you think I will referee a fight over this “spacer”….”

      Yeah, I think you will.  Because that is your JOB.  You’re going to have a lot of fun dealing with the TSA every time you are at your arrival airport after you are known as The Stewardess Who Cried Scary Piece of Plastic.  You think Air Marshals and the FBI like to have their time wasted by a flying waitress who would rather call them in than DO HER JOB?

    • phxpaul

      SeniorStew Right there with you SeniorStew !!

    • MrMarcusAurelius

      SeniorStew  

      A ‘senior’ flight attendant with the handle SeniorStew…I’m wondering if this flight attendant might be (drum roll)…a senior flight attendant? A woman, mid-forties, not thin,wearing an argument for a face, says ‘Sir’ a lot. Man or woman, if you ever had me arrested for ‘interfering with the duties of a crew member’ or you threatened me with detention for no good reason–you’d have a device called a lawsuit inserted into your asshole. Quit watching Dirty Harry. The device limits the extent to which a seat can recline. It doesn’t interfere with your duties. It is not illegal. For others posting, I don’t recline the seat unless I ask the person behind if it’s okay, and then I go only half the distance. It has always worked as a way of defusing the issue. I always seem to get the ‘full recline’ from the person in front, but being able to lean back a little way helps offset that.

    • durhamja

      @FrequentFlierdon’t now if you are ignorant or an idiot.  You DON’T regain leg room by reclining your seat .  the seat bottom doesn’t move, therefore your knees don’t move, yet the seat in front of you will come back and press against you knees.  (6′ 4″ – 215-lbs)

    • phxpaul

      durhamja The new slim line seats do.  Southwest is installing them on their Evolve cabin design, and AA is putting in their new delivery narrow body aircraft in coach.

    • durhamja

      phxpauldurhamja  Wow ,   This I would like to see…. . .

    • Fean0r

      Confiscated? By what right? Don’t be so ridiculous. An airoplane isn’t school.
      And as durhamja says, how on earth does reclining your seat give you more legroom when the base of the seat doesn’t move backwards?
      I’m 6’2″ and almost never put my seat back at all because I hate having my legroom taken away myself. Do to others, etc.

  • hattrickassoc

    “Taking up someone else’s space?” Um, you’re free to recline too…as are all other passengers. What a douchebag. This dude uses these things on me, he’s got trouble in river city…pronto. I’ve already paid out the a** for this seat, dealt with insanely overpriced airport parking and the madness that is the commercial airport itself. I’ll be dammed if some moron is gonna tell me I cannot move my seat back an additional 2 inches to make this 8 hour flight a *tiny bit more comfortable…..

  • FogelRivka

    YeahThatsKosher I’m the person putting their seat back. #noshame

    • YeahThatsKosher

      FogelRivka where do you sit?

    • FogelRivka

      YeahThatsKosher At work? On 22. On airplanes? In front of you *evil laugh

    • jeypandian

      YeahThatsKosher FogelRivka Near me on the 22nd.

    • YeahThatsKosher

      jeypandian FogelRivka was just on 22 looking for you guys

  • dsappl

    YeahThatsKosher Israelis without laptops are going to buy it by the thousands

    • YeahThatsKosher

      dsappl if you read the article, the author used it so he can save his laptop

    • dsappl

      YeahThatsKosher I know. And Israelis, very selfish by nature, will use it just to keep others from leaning back

  • templar 6

    Comedy

  • Logical Pilot

    On first pass, doesn’t this seem cool?  Some say yes and others say no.  Mostly with an emotional response like, “I paid for the seat to recline”, or “I saved my lap top.”  I want the person who uses this product to think clearly and take responsibility for their actions.  

    1. This product will be considered a modification to the aircraft.  This product is neither TSO’d nor approved by the FAA.  What are the ramifications of that?  Hmmm… Anything that is attached to the aircraft must be approved.  Interesting concept eh?  

    2. This product prevents the rapid stowing of the tray table and may even prohibit emergency evacuation.  Doing so could be construed by flight attendents, pilots, and the faa as a safety issue.  For those of you Ninja’s out there saying I can get them off the tray tables in less than .05 sec on the PAC timer, need to think about the person next to you who is lifting up on your table to save their own skin while your hand is smashed in the hinge.  Good luck.  

    3. Now comes the security risk… Who do you think will be called the instigator/offender/suspect when you get into one of these arguments with either a flight crewmember or another passenger?  Hmmm… let’s think about that one.  I’ll give you the answer; if said product wasn’t used there would not have been a problem so legally speaking you would be at fault for probably 1-3 and land yourself in a heap of trouble.  

    Now to the makers of said product.  When your customers get into huge trouble using this I hope that you have a great waiver of liability and a great lawyer.  I hope that you have never pierced corporate vale because you have directly contributed to your customers committing a felony, and the full weight of the federal government will come crashing down on you.  At min they will tell you cease and desist.  However, I would expect a full IRS audit following the investigation.  It’s just how they roll.  

    I just want you guys to think before you do things, because you will be held responsible for your actions.  

    So, let’s go over this again-

    Don’t use product= SAFE

    Use product= Not SAFE

    Got it?

    • Fean0r

      Have you read the article Mr Logical? It says:
      “FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said the clips were not against federal aviation rules as long as they weren’t used during taxiing, takeoffs or landings.”
      Your entire argument is based around the idea that it breaches FAA rules. It doesn’t, so your argument is flawed.

    • wisehectare

      @Logical PilotYou wrote something about the company that makes these, “I hope that
      you have never pierced corporate vale…”  You mean that old crooner,
      Jerry Vale.  I hope they never pierce him.
      OK, so you say
      you’re a pilot.  And there could be an emergency situation.  Uh, when
      exactly do the tray tables have to be put up in an emergency?  When the
      pilot announces an emergency, right?  Isn’t that long before there would
      be some evacuation?  And if it’s a crash landing at the airport, or in the water, or some field, the tray tables would already be up, right?  IOW, what kind of situation are you suggesting where someone would be pushing up my tray table so that he can get out?  OTOH, if the plane flies into the side of a mountain, evacuation would be kinda moooot, right? 

      And what if, when the pilot announces an emergency, someone has his carry-on open on his table?  Or drinks? Or he’s diapering his kid? 

      And
      these Knee Defender things don’t “attach” to a plane any more than your
      butt “attaches” to a plane when it’s in your seat.  Besides, as FearOr
      posted, the FAA already said what the deal is from their position.  

      Anyway, thanks for the piercing the corporate “vale” line.  Made me laugh.

    • Monkey_Wrench

      @Logical Pilot  re 1: It’s removable, not a permanent modification to the aircraft, Just like an Ipad on a Ram mount. Removable, no approvals needed.

  • Fean0r

    Quite often I fly on aircraft that aren’t fully occupied. When the seat behind me is empty I like to recline my seat. When it isn’t, I don’t.
    I find it incredible that people think that because the button is there, they are morally in the right to use it whenever and however they choose, the person behind them be damned.
    The other week I was using my iPad when someone put their seat back so suddenly that they smacked me in the head with the back of their seat. This isn’t the airline’s fault. It isn’t my fault. It’s the person in front’s fault for being an ignorant butthole. Same with the person whose laptop got damaged – that sounds a lot like victim blaming to me.
    I find it a huge shame that because some people aren’t adult enough to choose when to recline and when not to recline we might have the facility removed entirely. Are we that incapable of being considerate?
    For me, reclining your seat in economy class on short haul flights is like farting or burping loudly in public or in front of someone. It’s perfectly natural to want to do it, it’s just horrid for everyone else and you just don’t.

    • Fean0r

      I wanted to edit this to clarify that it’s people who put their seat back suddenly and without warning, without looking first, and/or too far, that I think are ignorant. Reclining slowly and a little is fine, as is asking first.

  • notsure

    I think an analogy is in order. 

    If an obese person sat next to me such that for their comfort they wanted to raise the armrest between us and be partially in my seat, I’d apologize to them for their plight but nevertheless be firm that their discomfort being bound within just the seat they paid for doesn’t trump my comfort within the entire seat I paid for (including the reclining I paid for).

    I feel badly for tall people, but they have to pay for their situation to be accommodated.

    Think about healthcare. Until it became more socialized, of course someone with more health issues would pay more for healthcare than someone healthier. No matter that the unhealthy person didn’t deserve their plight.
    Now healthcare is moving more towards a socialized model. I’m not commenting on whether that’s good or bad, but trying to extend the analogy. If you want the airline to be more socialized, lobby the airlines to adapt their pricing and seating structures such that all people with all body types will be accommodated for the same price. Just realize that it’d take an act of Congress to mandate that private companies give effectively higher-class tickets to taller/heavier customers for the same price as the shorter/thinner person sitting in economy.

    Until then, taller (and heavier) people need to either pay more, ask for favors, or otherwise figure out how to be reasonably comfortable without impinging on others’ comfort.

    • prettysure

      @notsure At 6’4″, my knees are always jammed into the back of the seat behind me. When the person in front tries to recline, I keep them firmly in place…I “decline the recline”.  Perhaps you’ll get the seat in front of me your next flight.

    • notsure

      @prettysure   hear that your show of force might stop me from reclining, but why is that morally appropriate? I made some logical points in my post. What exactly do you disagree with?

    • wisehectare

      @notsure – If someone’s legs are there, then they’re there. And unless a tall person has a short upper leg, then there is no option of stretching them out and underneath your seat so you can recline.  Why?  Because of geometry.  So even w/o that gadget, you won’t be able to recline.
      If I am sitting behind you in coach, in many planes my knees will already be up against the back of your seat.  While we are at the gate.  Not because I’m doing anything special or sitting weirdly.  It’s simply because I’m alive and sitting normally in my seat.
      If you want to say that my long legs are “blocking” you from reclining, then that’s like saying my carry-on in the overhead bin is “blocking” you from you putting your carry-on in the same place in the bin.  I’m allowed to have a carry-on, and if I put mine up there first, then the space you want for your bag is already occupied by my bag.  
      I’m also allowed to have legs.  My knees are there behind your seat before you’re allowed to recline – and when you are allowed to recline, that space is already taken by my knees.  That’s about it.

    • notsure

      wisehectare I agree with your analogy. Now let’s apply it appropriately.

      If buying a seat on a plane entitles me to space in the overhead (it doesn’t anymore now that they started charging for checked bags; it used to though), then you putting your one bag in the overhead bin rightfully precludes me from putting my carry on bag in that exact spot. I have to put my bag in a different spot in the overhead bin.

      But if you bring a double-sized carry-on (even if you can’t help it, say, because it’s for medically necessary supplies), you don’t have the right to force me to have to put my single-sized carry-on at my feet. You have to keep at least half of that bag by your feet so as not to impinge on my paid right to store my bag in the overhead.

      In other words, your right to extend your fist ends at my face.

    • wisehectare

      @notsure – When you say, “… you don’t have the right to force me”.  Sure, I don’t have the right to force you to do anything. 

      But, my post wasn’t about who has a “right” to this or that or anything.
      I posted about the real world that exists on an airplane.  About two things… not being able… to occupy the same space… at the same time. 

      I posted about the physical world.  My analogy was about the physical world.  But you think I applied it inappropriately because it was not applied to some dream world of yours in which seats can recline regardless of what physical matter may be occupying the space behind them – namely, someone else’s legs, arranged normally, while his/her butt is arranged normally in his/her seat.

      If pigs flew out my butt, I wouldn’t have to buy bacon.  If no person who might ever sit behind you had long legs, you could always recline.  But in the real world, I’m buying bacon and you’re not reclining if a long-legged person is seated behind you.  Whether or not they use some plastic gadget to stop you.  Their knees will.

      Now go ahead and talk about your rights to this and that until your sphincter turns blue.  But unless and until you devise some sort of airplane space that defies the standard laws of physics, good luck.

    • tsunamidaily

      @prettysure I would slam my seat back into your knees until they were bloody. I’m 6’2″ myself and have had to deal with it. thanks for letting the world know you are an a**hole…..

    • Right. You are announcing your plan to physically batter him because of your perceived entitlement to “comfort” and HE is the asshole.
      Got it.

    • notsure

      everlastingphelps He might not have said it in the nicest way, but he has a valid point that everyone has the right to be comfort within the bounds of what they pay for.

      We all pay for reclining seats. So the space in front of your knees is not guaranteed space you paid for. It’s only yours if the person in front of you isn’t using it for reclining.

      If you can’t be comfortable in an economy size seat with the seat in front of you reclining like it’s allowed to do, pay for another class. I know tall people are born that way, but life isn’t fair. If you’re tall, you have to pay extra for the legroom you need. Business class and first class aren’t cheaper for tall people. Tall people can’t save money by impinging on the reclining space of the seat in front of them.

      The person in front of them only wants to use the space they rightfully paid for in order to be comfortable, whereas the tall person who paid economy is asking for more room than they paid for.

    • Fean0r

      Incredible that a thinking person could say such things – and then question someone else for whether their so-called show of force is “morally appropriate”!
      I can’t help being tall. Men can’t help being men. Women can’t help being women. Black people can’t help being black. White people can’t help being white.
      People can, however, help putting their seat back. When someone makes this CHOICE they are impinging on my comfort. I am not impinging on someone else’s comfort by virtue of something that I can’t change.
      That you should think that any of the above-mentioned groups should pay more for doing anything is not logical and worse than morally inappropriate. It’s morally vile.

    • notsure

      Fean0r It looks like you didn’t read my health care analogy. In the past, people pay for what they use, even if they were born with a preexisting condition. That has been changing for healthcare so that all people pay the same amount, regardless of how much they use in the medical system (still very far but being that way, but moving in that direction).

      The airline industry has NOT taken the socialized approach. You pay for what you use, even if you can’t help needing to use more. If you are tall, you need more legroom and need to pay for that extra legroom.

      If you sat next to a large person, and in order for them to be comfortable they required the armrest between you to be lifted so they can overflow into your seat, would you agree that it’s only morally fair for them to impinge on your enjoyment of your entire seat because they don’t fit within the class of seats they paid for?

      In other words, logically speaking, the fact that someone chooses or doesn’t chose to require more room is inconsequential to the moral argument. The question is do they have more rights than the person who wants to use the entire seat they paid for (and its functionality).

    • notsure

      Fean0r  I’ve got another analogy about whether the morality of impinging on someone else’s space is dependent on whether the needs are by choice or by nature.

      Say someone has back issues such that when seated for more than 10 minutes at a time, he must recline slightly more than an economy seat will allow him to.

      But there exists a device that somehow manages to get the seat to recline slightly more than it’s intended to be able to recline.

      This passenger uses this device to make the economy seat he paid for more comfortable to him. He justifies it saying that he paid for his seat and his medical issue necessitating a slightly bigger recline is not his fault.

      I think you’d agree he’s being inconsiderate because he’s limiting the space of the person behind him because the extra reclining is not an intended feature for the seat he paid for – he’s taking more than he’s due. His being born that way doesn’t factor in.

    • notsureeither

      @notsure I’m pretty sure you’re just a terrible human being.

    • notsure

      @notsureeither This is an intelligent discussion. People make logical arguments advocating their position, and others respond agreeing or disagreeing with some or all of those points.

      Your comment isn’t contributing. In fact it seems pretty ad hominem. If you think I’m not being fair or nice, please point out why.

  • larryalevine

    I don’t understand this movement against reclining.  You are punishing the wrong people – your fellow passengers. Why aren’t you going (aggressively) after the airlines who continue to decrease space in their airplanes?  Were are your posts on that?  Are some people inconsiderate?  Sure.  There are people who talk too much, too loud, don’t shower, drink too much, get into fights, hit people with their luggage as they walk down aisles, etc… Thats what happens when you go out into the world.  

    But perhaps, for a moment you could consider the person on the other side of the chair.  Maybe sitting straight up is actually a big problem for them.  I know it is for me.  I’ve had 2 (yes, two) spine surgeries.  I can’t spend even a 45 minute flight straight up. I need to recline or my back goes into spasms.  If someone like you put that ‘knee defender’ behind my seat you would actually be causing me severe pain and distress – all because you want to use your laptop! 

    May I suggest that we all just take a breath and band together and direct our frustration at the real culprits – the airline execs – who insist on sticking us in even smaller spaces.  After all, we are actually in it together.

  • CraigTollting

    “I have to admit to smirking once or twice when a person in front of me
    continued to try everything they could to get their seat back.”
    Guess what, Bryan.  This makes YOU the a-hole.

  • phxpaul

    after reading this article, when someone stops me and states they are having trouble reclining their seat, and they are not in an exit row, or the last row, I now know to look for this clip.  The clip that can actually cause damage to the seat!  I understand wanting to use the tray table to use your computer, and I have seen the kind of damage a fast reclining seat can cause.  But if you break the tray table (and yes you are breaking the tray table by changing how it works) I will have paper work to do.  And your name will probably be on it, possibly a supervisor meeting the flight, or even the police.

  • phxpaul

    I don’t buy the supposed FAA statement.  If you are using the clip, you are modifying the function of the seat and can cause damage when the person sitting forward tries to recline.  The FAA hates computers in seat pockets because they damage the spring, so I cant imagine they would say this clip is ok..  It’s just the seller trying to market his product

  • Troooels

    The problem of the world – me me me me me, MY needs always comes first. 
    Think about how far we could come, showing just a little bit understanding for eachothers needs and think twice before we act. 

    Reclinning seats can be a pain in the a**, but it is a part of flying and it is the same for you, me and everyone else onboard the plane. And as others do point out, I could name 100 of things, that are far worse than this.

    And if you are so scared, that your laptop might be broken, why not place it some where safe? Do you really need to have it in your seatpocket? And how is it, that your time, with the laptop on the table, is more important than your fellow passanger in front, who might need some sleep? 

    Try to let the world spin without you being the center.

    Oh and by the way, I have worked on a plane and travled for more than 20 years – I have had my experiences with reclining seat and small seats, but hey – I still lived to tell the tales.

    • whut

      Troooels lots of self centered people here I agree.
      “I know more than you and I will post my certified opinion blahblah”
      I work in public transportation. Even if you found a way to make any 99% of the people happy that last 1% will complain. That. Much. More.

  • tsunamidaily

    I think if anyone is found using them, instant $500 fine. there is no other way to keep people from being a**holes than to hit them in the wallet. then allow customers to sue the company for damages. that will put this company out of business, where it needs to be. and I personally WILL slam my seat into anyone that keeps their legs jammed into the seat. I’m 6’2″ and have had to deal with people leaning back– if you do that, you are an a**hole, period, and if it still did not recline I would get the stewardess to tell you to let it recline. too many selfish people in this world.

    • 90% of the flying publics doesn’t want seats to recline AT ALL, especially on short haul flights.
      Face it. To 9 out of 10 people (which is pretty much (everyone) YOU are the asshole. Get off your high horse.

    • notsure

      everlastingphelps Firstly,it’s not necessarily true that 90% of the PUBLIC wants non-reclining seats. I haven’t seen the survey you’re referring to in a bit, but if I remember correctly it was from a website heavily visited by business-folk who tend to work on flights.

      But even if 90% of the public do want to get rid of reclining seats – at the current, present, now, moment, it is a feature offered by the airlines. Take your “high horse” crap to the airline. In the meantime, it’s perfectly fine to use a feature availed to us that we pay for the right to use.

    • @notsure everlastingphelps Knees in your back is also a feature.  As is me breathing on you over the seat and sneezing on you.  It’s perfectly fine for me to use a feature that you’ve availed me of by reclining your seat (since I’m not able to do any of those things UNTIL you have reclined your seat.)

    • larryalevine

      everlastingphelps Can you please direct me to this survey.  Since every flight I’m on nearly everyone around me reclines the second they are able I sincerely doubt this is correct.  But I’m open to seeing metrics. My guess is that if it is true, people are reacting to a reduction in space, not simply wanting not to recline.  This is a complex problem in that we all likely agree on the problem as a whole.  Everyone is experience discomfort.  But we are not directing our outrage at the right people.  Airlines are not treating us humanely.  And because of that we are lashing out on our fellow passengers.

    • larryalevine everlastingphelps  http://www.skyscanner.net/news/calling-time-reclined-airline-seats

    • larryalevine

      everlastingphelps larryalevine Thank you.  That’s a very interesting article.  What I would suggest is that there is a compromise.  Half the plane allows recline, half does not.  Obviously there are people who need this ability (like myself) for medical reasons.  We are not trying to be selfish or inconsiderate of others.  Just not sit in maddening pain for the entire flight.

    • larryalevine everlastingphelps There’s lots of compromises that can be made.  I think the most reasonable would be to just limit how far they go back on short haul planes (like SWA).  That’s where the real problems are.  There’s a huge gulf between 4-6 degrees and the current 12-15 they go now.  I’ve had lots of people either lean back partially with no trouble, or ones who lean back, hit my knees, move it up a few inches, and we are fine.

      It’s not a territory thing.  It’s a “don’t break my stuff and don’t put your chair in my knees” thing.

    • larryalevine

      everlastingphelps I feel you.  I’m 6’4.  What they ought to do is add more leg room and then figure out what worst case recline level should be.  Perhaps legroom could be scattered.  Then people could be assigned seats based upon their height (I know this is a problem for couples and families) but my 5′ wife has no problem letting me sit in comfort for awhile.

    • societysucks

      larryalevine everlastingphelps  there is a compromise … upgrade your seat

  • TXCOMT

    This is why I drive most places!

  • templar 6

    I typically only recline after about 4-5 hours on a flight with a flight time of 10 hours or more. I have sat on the same plane for over 14 hours before. How long is the battery life in your computor? I attempt to do work on the plane for not many times, due to fat fxxks, babies, stinking pukes, and seats slamming into my computor. I normally don’t recline. But I pay for the reclining seats and I will use them, On some contracts I fly bussiness and first class. If the airlines didn’t want them to recline or people didn’t expect them to recline they would be eleminated.

    • templar 6  I don’t have a problem with that.  My problem is with the people who need to act like they are in their living room for a 60 minute flight or who have to keep their seat down when meals are being served.

    • templar 6

      everlastingphelps templar 6  I hate everything about flying, I hate the seats, the food, the security and the airports. Most of all I hate the experience from beginning to end. And sometimes I loath the people and the inpolite attuitude of many. This is just another part of the overall included fun… It seems it would be funner to ram a hot poker in my eye than ever boarding a plane again. In fact I think I hate it more than the SHOTSHOW… And next month it begins again in earnest, the monthly Circus

  • Oops

    I just hope this product provides a few Self – Defense technique example illustrations… For I see a lot a** whoopings for the User if caught! lol!

  • modScheherazade1

    Wow. While I have dealt more often than not with rude people who recline too far or too hard in front of me, I wouldn’t dream of impeding on their ability to do so. I was once on a transatlantic red eye flight, in the middle seat. Every seat on the plane reclined to go to sleep and relax… except mine couldn’t. The one in front of me was reclined back so far that it was about five inches from my face. The entire flight was full. I couldn’t move to another sat. I was stuck. It was extremely uncomfortable and I didn’t rest at all. I was miserable. Now I am wondering why my seat didn’t recline– was it because of a device like this? If it was, I wonder if the person who used it would have done it knowing how uncomfortable it made me for 14 hours?

    • modScheherazade1

      Some seats don’t recline for various reasons established by the airline. You can usually find the specifics for a particular flight at:

      http://www.seatguru.com

      Select your seat carefully, and sometimes you can get a bit more space. But be advised that the airlines aren’t stupid. Some have added surcharges for those slightly less torturous seats.
      Just be glad that they’ve yet to move to pay toilets. That issue has been raised in the EU.

    • Jizzmaster

      modScheherazade1 Hey, boohoo you sound like a whiney rich college knowitall pothead. Why would you defend something this ridiculous  Has one ever considered asking the passenger in front of them first before they install this BS device? No. Because only a selfish person would buy something this ridiculous. How about the teenage boys in the planes jumping into Normandy, France in WW2 how uncomfortable did you think that flight was? What about the teenage boys now flying F16s over the middle east for hours on end, Your problems dont matter, and neither do mine. My point is suck it up, be a man deal with it, the good lord wanted you to have a shi$$y flight so youll bi^ch about it later, and what ive said will make you realize that your not the only one on this planet…Even if you never read this your everything thats wrong with this generation. Enjoy your next flight to cancunt…

  • KeithRollman

    Everybody is missing the point.  You should be able to recline your seat AND you should have ample leg room.  The problem isn’t the a-hole in front or the a-hole in the back…it’s the cheap-ass airline that squeezed an extra row of seats into a space that was too small.

    • You’re right Keith. If I recall correctly, when Boeing designs planes, it plans them for a certain number of rows. Many airlines apparently insist that Boeing give them interiors that have more rows than that.

    • GreggArmstrong

      I was a long-term Boeing employee and I am now retired. I did not ever work in the “Interiors” groups. But, as I understand it, the airlines generally buy their seats, complying with the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations), directly from the seat manufacturers, supply them to the Boeing factory as BFE (buyer furnished equipment), and Boeing installs them. In fact, much of the interiors are BFE. Regardless of what Boeing does to make it possible to install roomier seating the airlines will generally opt to increase the numbers of seats.
      Post-deregulation I have not figured out how the airline industry as a whole has managed to be profitable. That is why they give passengers minimal allowable seating, charge fees for anything and everything, etc.
      I am not a big man. I am 5′ 10″ and weigh about 195 pounds, still mostly muscle. I fly as little as possible for several reasons. For one, I get hamstring cramps after confinement into such tiny, cramped seats. You don’t want to be next to me as I struggle to straighten out a leg to relieve a cramp. Second, I have had people lean their seats back so fast that they trapped my knees very painfully. Third, I am inevitably strip searched by TSA, due to metal embedded throughout my body, so that I thoroughly loathe going through TSA security anymore.
      If I had to fly regularly again I would surely purchase that product to protect my knees. But, I would ask the passenger ahead for their permission to use them after first explaining my physical condition.
      Semper Fidelis,
      Gregg

  • TallSam

    Despite so many people being upset about this thing, http://www.talladaptations.com/2014/04/airplane-seat-legroom-for-tall-people.html said they had no problem using it!

  • NoRemorse

    Well, I’d think that Knee Defender is pretty intrusive and I would think of you as an asshole if I found out you used them on my flight – still kind of do think of you as an asshole, purposely sabotaging their chair and reducing a person’s comfort. I understand that one woman who refused to raise her seat seemed a bit rude to you – she still has the right to recline, she paid for it when she bought the ticket. Your perception of people does not give you the right to infringe their reclining space. People recline when they have headaches, when they got up for an early flight and are tired, or when they simply want to sleep through a long flight – Hell, it doesn’t even need to be for any of those reasons! It could simply be for comfort, and it’s still a valid reason.  The Food Tray is for holding food, NOT your laptop, so don’t expect people to compromise to keep you happy. If you specifically need space to use a laptop, buy a Business Class ticket, it will provide you with all the space you need.

  • Senior Stew

    I’m a senior flight attendant. If I ever saw this or another passenger complained about it…I would tell the asshole using it to remove it immediately or he would be detained upon arrival.
    Space is THE most important factor on any flight. Go ahead and use this device but be aware of the consequences. If you think I will referee a fight over this “spacer”….
    The authorities will handle it. Ever hear of the charge “interfering with the duties of a crew member”? Go ahead and make my day…

    • interlopersb

      Senior Stew

    • interlopersb

      Senior Stew    blah blah blah…  nothing like a overpaid airborne nazi trying to throw her weight around to add to a topic…

    • OldGunHand

      Senior Stew Speaking as one of the “Authority s on the ground” AND a commercially certified pilot AND a law enforcement officer… I would like to meet up with you “Senior Stew”…Believe me, I would make your day one that you would not want to repeat…loose the fucking chip bitch…your not tough when you speak like that…just shows how truly ugly you are…AND that you can’t follow the gist of the discussion.

    • flyinghurts

      Senior Stew Get off your high horse before you fall off and hurt yourself…no one gives a F***k  about your egotistical rant.  Get a life.

    • 108rover

      Senior Stew

    • 108rover

      Senior Stew Is right. As a former 121 airline pilot and current LEO an inoperative seat is cause for taking the seat out of service. In other words the person in the seat would have to vacate it. So failing to remove it would result in interfering with the flight crew. Unless your willing to give up your seat to the person you just blocked from reclining don’t use it. All you can call Senior Stew a nazi all you want, but I guarantee if a plane ever goes down and your family is on board your going to wish a flightcrew member who takes charge is on board.

    • 108rover

      Senior Stew Is right. As a former 121 airline pilot and current LEO an inoperative
      seat is cause for taking the seat out of service. In other words the
      person in the seat would have to vacate it. So failing to remove it
      would result in interfering with the flight crew. Unless your willing to
      give up your seat to the person you just blocked from reclining don’t
      use it. All you can call Senior Stew a nazi all you want, but I
      guarantee if a plane ever goes down and your family is on board your
      going to wish a flightcrew member who takes charge is on board. 
      And trust me, pilots probably have more love and hate for the guys/gals in the back than anyone else (even passengers). Nothing is worse when they won’t bring you a freak’n drink when your fatigued up front.

  • G2

    funny all the blow-hards posting against Senior Stew.  Unfortunately for them, she is correct.  And when you land, there can be an unbelievable number of police at the gate to meet you.  I’ve watched it happen.

  • WaterAndWine

    The Senior Stew is the asshole – he thinks he has the legitimate power to limit me? If this is what he thinks he can do, he is the asshole. Period. I am glad that I do not need a plane to travel someplace …

  • ChrisCalderin

    if you think not letting someone use there seat is not worse than them leaning back you have life all up

    • Steph Gro

      ChrisCalderin I agree.

  • Steph Gro

    “I just don’t think it’s fair to take up even more of someone’s space that they’ve paid for.”
    I do disagree very much.
    You are cutting the right of everyone by doing so because everybody paid for the right of put his seat back. The seats have that future on purpose. This is why the airlines chose those kind of seats.
    By using the “knee defender” you violate the right of the person in front of you to put the seat back.

  • fmhuff

    I don’t fly as much as I used to in my work but somebody jamming my seat back when I paid to have a seat where I could lean it back and rest would at the very least to me anyway be considered very rude indeed. 

    If you want to set behind a seat that doesn’t lean back they are located at all the exits and could be requested before boarding. Some people like myself use longer flights to rest a bit from exhausting work schedules. 

    Blame the airlines not the passengers for lack of space. Or just fly first class.

  • 108rover

    As a former 121 airline pilot and current LEO an inoperative
    seat is cause for taking the seat out of service. In other words the
    person in the seat would have to vacate it and the seat deemed inop. So failing to remove it
    would result in interfering with the flight crew. Unless your willing to
    give up your seat to the person you just blocked from reclining don’t
    use it. If you want the plane to return to the gate and delay the whole flight go ahead and use it. Your going to have a lot bigger problem than someone reclining their seat on you.

    I would have no problem in my former life as a pilot telling someone to remove it. As an LEO I would handle the call for interfering with a flightcrew member and hook and book. Amazing so many people want to risk delaying a flight or getting kicked off over a reclining seat. Do unto others as you’d have done to you. Take it off!

    • MoreLiberty

      @108rover Typical arrogant cop.

  • Tony the Aussie

    Sorry I’m late to this. It is an offence to interfere with the operation of aircraft equipment and fittings. This is interfering with the operation of a seat. As much as I hate the chair in the face, it’s legal.

  • Tysonb

    I caught a douchebag behind me using these things and promptly confiscated them.  It was satisfying to watch the s h i t eating grin he was wearing drain from his face as I began to investigate why my seat would not recline.  I don’t think he expected to be caught using them. 

    “Little did I know that I wasn’t alone in my want to put a stop to the problem.”  The problem is you and your over developed sense of entitlement.  If you want more room, buck up for the plus seats, business class or first class.  You should also review your definition of ‘flight etiquette’.  Asking someone to not recline their seat is rude, medical issues notwithstanding.

    • Fean0r

      This is hilarious. The rights & wrongs of using this device pail in comparison with you “confiscating” someone else’s property. You have no right or authority to do this – its theft, plain & simple.
      So, who comes of worse here – the douche or the thief?

    • Fean0r

      This is hilarious. The rights & wrongs of using this device pail in comparison with you “confiscating” someone else’s property. You have no right or authority to do this – its theft, plain & simple.
      .
      So, who comes of worse here – the douche or the thief?

  • Me First

    While it is unfortunate that airlines are making the seat space so tight and uncomfortable to passengers so that they can make more money on business that is already very lucrative, but it does not give the gadget users the right to use these illegal gadgets to violate other passengers’ right to enjoy their limited space.  The violators can either upgrade themselves to other travel arrangements that would give them more space or simply stay home.  The users of these illegal gadgets should either go to jail or pay hefty fines.

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