Today I’d like to share my experience of wearing the two most popular deep concealment holsters everyday for the past 16 months, and clear up some misconceptions floating around on the internet.
Deep concealment is simply one method. Its not for everyone, nor is it the best answer for every situation. The reason deep concealment works for me, is I never have to change my carry style. Jeans, shorts, tucked in shirt, it doesn’t matter what the occasion is, deep concealment always works for me.
Is it as quick to draw compared to an IWB or OWB (In the Waistband, On the Waistband)? No, and for this reason it may not be for everyone. With enough practice, you can get extremely fast with a deep concealment holster, but in my experience it will never be as fast as other carry methods.
What you have to ask yourself is, where are you willing to compromise? Also, do you want to continually change holsters given the occasion?
Testing Criteria
The first 8 months of the last 16 were spent wearing a Thunderwear concealed carry holster, followed by 8 months in a Smart Carry. My standard carry during this time was a Sig Sauer P225/P6, Surefire A2 Aviator Flashlight, and a spare single-stack magazine.
I’ve carried everywhere from walking the dog, to cross country road trips, and up and down mountains. I can honestly say I’ve done everything in this holster, including sweating profusely. I’ve tried running, and while neither holster was comfortable during that, neither caused a dropped weapon. I don’t feel comfortable running with a deep concealment holster and its not something I do.
When you’re looking at reviews on the internet with these two holsters, a good way to tell if the reviews are any good is to look at wear marks and elastic stretch, because they’re going to happen. The material will wear, and the elastic will stretch and anyone that’s had anytime in these holsters will have both, it’s unavoidable.
Also, SmartCarry and Thunderwear are NOT the same company and never were.
SmartCarry
SmartCarry holsters are made of double layer heavy-duty denim with their proprietary “never snag” seams on the top edge of the holster and the pocket. A black binding is used around the lower edge of the holster with the rear featuring a “Cushmax waterproof lining.” The attachment is via a 8 3/4″ velcro connection on an elastic waisband that features a slim plastic insert on both the hook and loop sides of the velcro to give the strips more rigidity.
The SmartCarry comes in two models, standard and security. The security model features a valuable pocket in the rear of the holster for carrying cash, credit cards, a passport, or even a pair of handcuffs. They can be ordered in left hand, right hand and ambidextrous configurations. All holsters are available in white duck cloth rather than denim to avoid show-through in white garments.
SmartCarry holsters are made in the USA and come with a 60-day trial period to evaluate the product. SmartCarry also offers a 10% military discount.
Thunderwear
Thunderwear holsters are made of lightweight double-layer denim with binding seams around all edges. The rear of the holster features a “3-layer moisture barrier.” The attachment is via a 6″ velcro connection on an elastic waistband.
The Thunderwear comes in two models, standard and combination. The combination model features a back pocket in the rear of the holster for carrying cash, credit cards, a passport, or even a pair of handcuffs. The combination model accomodates left, right or ambidextrous configurations and comes in a small, medium or large frame size.
Thunderwear holsters are made in the USA with a 100% satisfaction guarantee.
Fit and Comfort
When it came to the fit of these holsters, I truly felt that the added rigidity of the SmartCarry velcro attachment made a tremendous difference in the overall comfort of this holster. With both, you have to make sure the velcro is lined up well if you don’t plan to have a shirt tucked into it, as exposed hook velcro will constantly bother you if not.
The SmartCarry elastic is also thicker and didn’t allow for as much sag as the Thunderwear did. While these holsters are supposed to ride on your hips and not the waist, having the elastic stretch too much can also cause it to ride lower than necessary.
Wear and Moisture Resistance
In terms of material, the double-walled denim material that SmartCarry offers is thicker and less prone to wear over the thinner double-walled denim that Thunderwear uses. Seams are a huge issue when it comes to drawing from concealment, and SmartCarry’s “never-snag” seams are true to their name. Thunderwear’s seams can and have snagged on my weapon upon drawing.
While I have yet to wash either of these holsters, the instructions on both say to hang dry them. The diaper cloth like “3-layer moisture barrier” of the Thunderwear has definitely picked up stains from what I know is surface rust coming through from the side of my P6. The front pocket on the Thunderwear where my gun is kept definitely has rust marks. I also commonly saw condensation build up on my weapon after perspiration or long wear with the Thunderwear.
I had the slide of my P6 parkerized about two years ago, but when it gets moist, surface rust occurs. I see absolutely none of that surface rust in the SmartCarry, and this was the holster I wore in the later 8 months of the testing. If there was surface rusting coming through it would have been on this holster too. That leads me to believe that the “3-layer moisture barrier” is not truly a moisture barrier on the Thunderwear, and the Cushmax is a superior moisture blocking material. This also may have to do with the thicker denim too.
Results
With all the subtle differences of these deep concealment holsters, and all the time I’ve had in them, the SmartCarry holster wins hands down. It not only outperformed and outlasted the Thunderwear, but it’s more comfortable, stays cleaner, fits better and resists moisture better than the Thunderwear.
While you’re free to make the same tests yourself, these are my experiences and are based on a thorough 16-month testing and evaluation period. If there are any specific questions I didn’t answer in the review or video below, please post them to the comments and I’ll do my best to answer them. Also let me know what kind of holster you run, and how versatile you feel your concealed carry options are.
Video Review
Check out the video below for proper deep concealment holster wear, draw, and more details comparing these two products.
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Great post. I'm always looking for different ways to carry. Sometimes my other holsters just aren't hidden enough. 8 months each is a great time to review these too! I bet you had a lot of situations to put them through.
I currently use a Raven Phantom and have been carrying concealed as an OWB option. All of my shirts hide the holster unless I really stretch high. Well, some shirts are a little short but then I just go IWB.
Great review. However, I've tried this style of carry and I just couldn't get any level of comfort. My favorite is the Super Tuck by Crossbreed Holsters. I wear a Glock 23. It's IWB AND you can tuck your shirt in while carrying. Made with metal clips, leather and the holster is kydex. I've been wearing it nearly 24/7 for the past couple of months with no problems.
Great review Bryan!!
When I get out of school I'll be working in a non-permissive environment, so I'm looking for new deep carry methods.
Is the SmartCarry like other typical IWB where you have to wear one size bigger pants?
Did you ever wear it with dress style slacks? They are typically pretty thin and tend to print more.
I would love to see a future review between the SmartCarry and something like the Galco Belly Band. Keep up the good work brother.
Second on BrockB's question: I've got a smartcarry but it's a PIA with Wranglers or anything of the like…Yeah I know I'm a redneck, but believe it or not Wranglers are our duty wear so I tend to wear them off-duty too.
Just curious as to what works with them and what doesn't?
Great review Bryan. In your article you mentioned not running in this particular gear. I struggle with being able to carry while exercising and could truely benefit from any insight you may have.
Neo, I've heard good things about the Crossbreed holsters too and would like to review one eventually. That leather looks comfortable.
Thanks Mike, I hope to have some Raven products to try soon too. I say soon, but I should really say 75 days from now LOL. I placed a personal order just the other day.
Thanks brother, glad you enjoyed the article. I don't wear a size bigger in my pants and find that when I've tried that I just wind up cinching a belt down and defeating the purpose of wearing bigger pants (to get to my gun easily) It also leads to more printing as cinching a belt down makes the crotch area stand out more.
I've worn these holsters numerous times with slacks and its always worked great for me. I like carrying a smaller Sig P232 (.380) though when wearing dress slacks as the P6 does print more in slacks.
Hope to have many more great comparison articles on Concealed Carry, thanks again!
Mike, don't Wranglers cut off circulation to your junk in the first place? LOL! I can see how adding a holster would be damn near impossible to fit!
Seriously though, have you tried wearing some looser fitting jeans? I know I have certain pairs of jeans that work better than others.
Dennis, I struggle with that too. It's tough to do with even a compact frame size weapon. I've considered buying a smaller .380 to try out while running, but would need a holster with retention, as the deep concealment holster don't offer any of that. It concerns me that the weapon might fall out while running.
Thanks for the kind words too! Glad you liked the review!
I personally have used both holsters myself also. Unlike the writer I find that the Thunderwear holster out lasted my Smart Carry holster. Within the first four month of using my Smart Carry holster it began to fall to pieces. Where they have the “no snag” seam the material pulled apart. I contacted Smart Carry and they refused to provide me with another holster. Pretty much said too bad so sad,buy another one! I was at a local gun show and talked to the owner of the Thunderwear company and she explained the difference in the materials used compared to Smart Carry, she was extremely friendly and knowledgeable. I purchased one of her holsters and have been very happy. After about three months of use the belt lost the elasticity and I called up Thunderwear and I had a new one delivered to my door within three days no questions asked no problems and no hard time given. I've now had this one for two years and have not had any problems with any of the material or stitching. THUNDEREWEAR HAS GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE! As far as the materials on the back side…I found that the Cushmax material that Smart Carry uses is not as flexible as the diaper material that Thunderwear uses and it is much hotter than the soft diaper material. If you research the Cushmax material you will see that it is not only used in Smart Carry but also used in the soles of shoes. It does “hold” moisture but does not make it disapear. The diaper material that Thunderwear uses wicks away and holds moisture too…..if you want comfort go for the soft diaper because in the end it is up to you, the carrier to maintain your weapon just as you would with any other holster. Wipe it down with a gun cloth at the end of the day and you won't have problems with pits forming on your weapon. That can only be attributed to a person who does not take proper care of their carry weapon, not the holster that they chose. Furthermore the writer is right Smart Carry and Thunderwear are not the same company and have never been. In further discussions with others I found that the owner of Smart Carry was originally Thunderwear's South Florida dealer that later copied their holster and started making them as Thunderbelt. Records show that after a patent court case the Thunderbelt maker then started to make them as Smart Carry. There are types of people that I choose not to deal with in life and the people of the Smart Carry company is on that list. They were not customer service friendly and they takes others ideas and consider them as their own. In my personal opinion Thunderwear beats Smart Carry hands down. If you live in Florida and carry concealed then this is the best method of carry because you don't have to dress to conceal your weapon. Minimal clothing is great. I wear my Thunderwear holster daily in basketball shorts and t-shirts and have never had a problem. I carry a S&W revolver and a Glock 27. I have never had any issues with snagging the holster when I practice my draw and I have never had any problems with pitting on my revolver because I take care of my weapon.
Ron,
Since I answer all phone calls to SmartCarry, I can testify that I’ve NEVER refused to replace or repair a defective holster that is still under our one year warranty period and we’ve repaired some at a reasonable price when they’re out of warranty. Your statement that you were told “Pretty much said too bad so sad,buy another one!” is a flat out lie. The way our warranty replacement works is that in cases of a new purchase we ship the customer a replacement holster and enclose a SASE in the package for them to use to return the original holster to us. If the customer has had the holster over 90 days we ask them to return it to us and we repair or replace it and send it back to them. I also searched our customer database using wild cards for ron r and found 18 matches, none of which had a first name of “Ron”, “Ronnie”, “Ronald” or anything similar w/ a last name beginning w/ an “R”, so I have serious doubts you’ve ever owned a SC. As for copying TW I suggest you read our US Utility Patent (there is a link to it on our website) and note that I referenced TW’s patent in our patent application, and the US Patent and Trademark Office certainly doesn’t think it’s a copy. SC is not a copy of TW but a completely different and improved concealed carry holster. And you’re right that I did sell TW’s at gun shows and on CompuServe around 1994 and 1995 and got quite a few customer complaints about handguns snagging on the downward facing seams during the draw, especially revolvers as the back of the cylinders would snag on the seam and any forward facing projection like the sharp front corner of a Glock ejection port will also snag on the seam. If fact, I told Tom Fogarty (the inventor of TW who has since sold the company to it’s current owners) about the problem and how to fix it and he got extremely upset that I would even suggest there was something wrong with his holster. He would not make any changes to TW and his solution to the snagging problem was “..send them another holster.” As a result we parted company and SC, w/ all the improvements I had suggested to him, came into existence. And according to the 802 customer testimonials we have posted on our website, all the improvements work very well, including our customer service, which is second to none.
Wow Ron, you sound like you work for Thunderwear or something LOL. Your opinions are your opinions as mine are mine, and my name is Bryan not “the writer.”
I've been using my SmartCarry for the last 8 months straight and haven't noticed any issues with the seams that you spoke about. Do you have photos? I would honestly be interested in seeing them. You can post them right in a reply comment.
The flexibility of the Cushmax issue you referred to may be more of a lack of flexibility in the denim material it's sewn on to. As I mentioned in my write up the denim that SmartCarry uses is heavier duty than what Thunderwear uses. Cushmax in itself is a soft fabric and very flexible.
As far as hot goes, both of these holsters are hot. The area of your body where they sit is one of the hottest parts of your body already when wearing clothing, and a big pad in front of it doesn't help. Out of these two holsters though, the Thunderwear has been the only one I have to wipe moisture off of my gun with.
I'm not sure if your talk of pitting is a knock on the surface rust I spoke about with my P6, and in some way stating that I don't take care of my guns. As I mentioned I had the gun parkerized… if you know much about P6s, there was a flood of them on the market a few years back and they'd all had extensive use in the FBI and most had excessive bluing wear to the slide so I had it parkerized. This is starting to wear off in places, mostly thanks to the moisture that sat on the weapon everyday last summer in my Thunderwear.
I'm not sure what the backstory is between SmartCarry and Thunderwear because all I could find is people say they heard this and that from others without any real information backed up by fact. I do know that SmartCarry used to be called Thunderbelt because they make that clear on their Website and you can find the patent dispute information you mention, but nothing further that I've found.
I am also glad you haven't had issues with your revolver snagging on your Thunderwear. As I mentioned in the article, and will clarify here, I had issues with the ejection port area on my P6 snagging on the seam of the pocket on more than one occasion.
I, along with others I'm sure, would like to see a photo of the Thunderwear holster you've used for the last two years without a problem. Is that wearing it everyday?
Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience,
Bryan
In reply to Bryan, I use my Thunderwear holster 4-5 times a week, all day long in the heat of Florida and I wash it at the end of each week. By far the best method of carry that I have found since I moved to Florida six years ago. I no longer have the Smart Carry holster. The day I was told that Smart Carry would not replace it i threw the inferior product out. It was damaged and of no use to me. Why keep it? In reply to Charlie P…by calling me a liar above only testifies to your true commitment to Customer Service . I did in fact own a Smart Carry holster, I did in fact call Smart Carry when I had the issue with the holster, and they did in fact tell me that they would not replace the holster and that I could buy a new one. Me…a liar I think not. I hope you don’t call all of your customer’s liars. The attitude you provided in you post is the same attitude I received over the phone when I called. Again, this is my opinion and you know what they say about opinions, they are like assholes everyone has one!
Here is the pic you requested of the Thunderwear holster that i have used for the past two years.
I have no opinion on one over the other but I can vouch that it is a viable carry system. I know that at one point several of the LEO's that sit in planes all day used this system and swore by it. Concealed Carry is like tattoos, very personal, and you should not feel that if it works for your friend it will work for you. BTW anyone know of a way to get rid of a Butterfly Tramp stamp? But I digress, anyone attempting to CC on a regular basis will end up with a box of holsters. This is called a learning curve and is money well spent as the only way to know is to try it for period of time to see if it fits your lifestyle, choices in weapon system, and clothing.
Bryan, excellent article as always,
“Doc”
Awesome comment Doc! I totally agree with your comment on it being very personal. Likening it to a tattoo is a nice example too. I’d love to see your tat sometime. I’m sure it’s sexy! Hahahah!
My company sews all of the SmartCarry Holsters. I want to confirm everything that Charlie P. stated in his comment. He is constantly upgrading the product. His customer service is beyond compare. I have seen him replace a brand new holster for one that just needed a minor stitch repair. He stands by his guarantee and his many repeat customers can attest to that.
I will repeat one more time that I have never told a customer what you claim I said to you. That statement is an absolute falsehood. As for customer service, copied below is an e-mail from a customer we received yesterday. Judge for yourself.
==========================
Subject: RE: SmartCarry Order Confirmation
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:17:01 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
thread-index: X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 9.0.829 [271.1.1/2932]
X-Antispam: NO; Spamcatcher 6.0.4. 1
Charlie, I am absolutely amazed! I am so appreciative for the wonderful service you have given me (very rare these days). I can’t thank you enough. I did not expect to keep the holster and would have gladly sent it back, but once again thank you. I will surely put it to significant use too. I am fan of you and your product. Hope to meet you at a show some day. I wish you the best.
Sincerely,
Brian
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Nice review. Good video too. I just don’t think I could handle a gun in my front on my junk. :) I’m one of those nerds that carry the fannypack holster. I prefer it while carrying a Glock 19. I would hate to have an AD while holstering it in my crotch area! I also wear a Blackhawk CQB hip holster. I’m a much larger frame so I can wear it fairly easily. Plus by wearing a side holster it more closely resembles how I draw the weapon when working. I am interested in the SmartCarry just out of curriosity, and to see how it would work. Keep up the great work you guys do, and stay safe.
I’ve seen “Ron R’s” same rant on Thunderware before. I was looking at buying one a few months back and was specifically trying to find the differences between the two (which this review answered all the question I had). I came across at least one post with very similar wording and gripes to Ron’s. Just giving you a heads up Charile, I’ve heard you on GunTalk and you seem to be a very stand up guy and very helpful on the show even when you call in on matters unrelated to your product.
I carry AIWB when I’m not working in a NPE’s by state law so the SmartCarry’s position would work well for me. It just turned out that I stopped going to the place where I needed deep concealment that was legally permissive but not socially approved so I ended up not getting the SmartCarry (yet).
Thanks for this excellent comparison review. I have to wear dress pleated khakis and a long sleeve button-down tucked in dress shirt at work every day. From talking to the business owner, he and the business environment are both extremely anti-gun, but there is no posted or given policy regarding CCW. So I conceal carry a Ruger LCP in a front pocket holster from RecluseHolster.com . While the LCP absolutely does not print in this holster, it is obvious that there is “something” large and flat in my front pocket – and although no one has ever asked what it is, I believe that they assume it is a PDA or cell phone. However, I need to have deeper concealment at work, as I refuse to be unarmed and also have no interest in being fired as I would be if management or the owner knew I was carrying concealed. Thanks to your comparison review I will be ordering a Smart Carry today. Thank you.
Bryan,
Great review & comparison! I’ve finally got a SmartCarry on the way and look forward to using it with my Walther P99c. I’ve been a long term using of Crossbreed’s SuperTuck Deluxe and you really should give it a look. The one I have for my Sig P239 has gotten a ton of use and though it shows it’s age and wear it’s definitely not worn out. In my view concealment holsters are meant to conceal not to look pretty. I have a couple reviews of it on my blog.
Great review. I’ve been SmartCarrying for a year now with no complaints. I don’t care to wear belts so it’s a great way to securely carry. To add to Bryan’s response on the pants, both Dockers and LL Bean have khakis with a hidden, expandable type waistband that makes drawing easier. LL Bean also carries jeans with the same type of waist band. Darker color pants and pleated fronts help in the camouflage dept. too.
Excellent review. I can confirm, Smartcarry is a great holster. I’ve used mine every day since it arrived about 7 months ago. I work in a “business casual” environment and it is the perfect solution. I wear it with jeans, shorts, and slacks: nothing shows. If you’re looking for deep carry, this is the item.