The RECOIL Magazine 2nd Amendment Controversy - ITS Tactical
 

The RECOIL Magazine 2nd Amendment Controversy

By Bryan Black

An unfortunate turn of events has occurred surrounding the latest issue of RECOIL Magazine. Everyone at ITS HQ was ecstatic when we received our copies of issue #4 and saw our ETA Trauma Kit Pouch gracing the cover along with a slung H&K MP7A1.

So ecstatic in fact, that we didn’t catch the glaring editorial and PR train wreck that Editor Jerry Tsai managed to insert into the article covering the MP7.  I’ll quote him directly here for those of you that haven’t seen the article yet.

“Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly.”

The issues with this statement come down to both the comments made by Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch and Mr. Tsai. Talking about the technology of the MP7 not having any “sporting applications” and not wanting the gun “in the wrong, slimy hands.” is just absurd. What gun do you want in the “wrong, slimy hands?” What baseball bat do you want in the “wrong, slimy hands?” See where this is going?

There’s a favorite quote of mine that I turn to often by author Dan Brown. “Knowledge is a tool, and like all tools, it’s impact is in the hands of the user.” Enough of my soapbox; this statement by Mr. Tsai is simply giving those that seek to take away our rights and liberties more fuel for their fire. The Second Amendment doesn’t come with the caveat of being only for sporting purposes and for good reason. The primary purpose for owning a gun is for defense. Maybe Mr. Tsai has forgotten that if it wasn’t for civilian weapons, we’d still be a British colony.

I’ve been watching the train wreck unfold since finding out about it this weekend and Mr. Tsai’s follow-up that he posted to the RECOIL Facebook Page yesterday (that has apparently been deleted) certainly didn’t help anything.



”As readers of RECOIL, we all agree that we love bad-ass hardware, there’s no question about that. I believe that in a perfect world, all of us should have access to every kind of gadget that we desire. Believe me, being a civvie myself, I’d love to be able to get my hands on an MP7A1 of my own regardless of its stated purpose, but unfortunately the reality is that it isn’t available to us. As a fellow enthusiast, I know how frustrating it is to want something only to be denied it.

Its manufacturer has not made the gun available to the general public and when we asked if it would ever come to the commercial market, they replied that it is strictly a military and law enforcement weapon, adding that there are no sporting applications for it. Is it wrong that HK decided against selling a full-auto pocket sized machine gun that can penetrate armor from hundreds of yards away? It’s their decision to make and their decision they have to live with not mine nor anybody else’s.

I accepted their answer for what it was out of respect for those serving in uniform.

I believe that we as gun enthusiasts should respect our brothers in law enforcement, agency work and the military and also keep them out of harms way. Like HK, I wouldn’t want to see one of these slip into the wrong hands either. Whether or not you agree with this is fine. I am compelled to explain a point that I was trying to make that may have not been clear.”

One of the truly disappointing things about his statements is that he did it on the backs of RECOIL’s advertisers, readers and everyone that’s made the publication what it is today. ITS has advertised in RECOIL for the past two issues amongst some of our good friends in the industry and on Friday had plans to continue to advertise in the next issue. In light of Mr. Tsai’s comments, we’ve since cancelled those plans.

RECOIL represented a huge shift for the industry into a beautiful publication with great photography and an excellent layout, which is no easy feat. Just picking up RECOIL and comparing it to the typical magazine sitting on the shelf made you want to hang on to it, but I digress.

It will be even more disappointing if Source Interlink Media (RECOIL’s parent company) feels this will just go away as they continue on with business as usual. Continuing with an editor that expresses these kind of statements in a “gun lifestyle” magazine is clearly the wrong direction.

Thank you for your continued support of ITS Tactical, it means more than you’ll ever know.
Bryan Black, Founder and Editor-in-Chief  

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Discussion

  • Eric Palmer

    A new ” apology” has just been issued on Facebook.

  • Clint Bryan

    Bryan,
    Thank you for pushing this out. I was in complete disbelief when I read the article this past Friday, especially when so many of our Industry Partners advertise and work with the magazine. I was pretty bummed that just before reading the article I purchased a year subscription via the ipad, which I am now canceling. Hell if it shoots, it’s sporting for me. Cheers brother and keep up the great work!

  • Paul

    I understand his point considering the gun “as is”, the round it uses and what those rounds are designed to do. I love my black rifles, but I do see his point and don’t see anything wrong with it concerning the gun tested.

    • Brett Po

      What gun isn’t designed to kill? As civilians, we have access to all small arms. Some harder to acquire than others. Can you own a suppressor? Yes. Can you own a full auto machine gun? Yes. Can we own a short barreled rifle? Yes. Can we buy an FN 5.7 despite controversy? Yes.
      Should we have access to an MP7A1? Yes.

  • Zombie1911

    People also don’t seem to remember that the second amendment giving us the rights and tools to defend ourselves from muggers/rapists is also a happy side effect. The true purpose of the amendment is to have a armed population in case the government gets too uppity. The government shouldn’t be in a position to tell you what you can and cannot have, we should be telling them. While I do not advocate anyone breaking the law to obtain this kind of hardware, if anyone should ever ask you why you would want/need something like this, just remember : the criminals don’t play by the rules, that’s why they are criminals.

    just some food for thought.

    • Zach

      When big brother comes for you no arms stash that you have accumulated will keep you safe.

    • Zombie1911

      No individuals arm stash, but how about the collective firepower and will of of 52 million housholds with an estimated total of 260 million firearms? what people like you dont get is that when you factor in those people especially with the true patriots that would either stand down or join in with you is we out number “big brother” in a large way.

      “People should not be afraid of there goverments, Goverments should be afraid of their people”
      -Codename V

    • GraemeD

      If I’m not mistaken, the actual wording of the 2A is as follows:

      “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”

      So the 2A doesn’t mean everyone who wants one should have one. If you’re in an organized militia, then yes, but it doesn’t seem like it’s saying all civilians should have whatever guns they want. I’m not a lawyer, but that seems pretty clear and basic. These are some pretty scary, lethal pieces of hardware for any untrained person off the street to be able to buy, and I think it’s possibly somewhat telling that the only person so armed in the Aurora shooting was the homicidal maniac.

    • Jason A

      What? Recent Supreme Court decisions have acknowledged that the 2nd Amendment pertains to the individual and for self defense – McDonald v Chicago. Additionally, our founders, time and time again, mentioned the right to bear arms was to protect against an oppressive and tyrannical government.

    • GraemeD

      I’d actually like to rescind my comment… I regretted posting it as soon as I hit submit. I love this website, but it’s the last place I should have expected to have an open, balanced discourse on this topic. I realized that posting what I did in this environment is tantamount to trolling, even though my intentions were good and my emotions honest. My apologies.

    • No, 2A DOES guarantee all “people” the right to keep and bear arms (it doesn’t grant the right, it guarantees the right).

      See this:

      http://www.godseesyou.com/2nd_well_regulated_militia.html

      Short version: “The People” are guaranteed TRTKABA to control – regulate – “the militia” which, per the constitution, is under the control of the POTUS or states. It’s to maintain the balance of power – ensuring the government does not run amuck.

    • Great link ‘Chief Instructor’! It explains the whole concept in a way I’ve understood but never been able to articulate. The 2nd Amendment is there to clarify that the right is guaranteed to the people.

    • TripWire

      If you were to quote the Constitution then I would think that you would do a little research before coming to such a conclusion.
      The U.S. 5th Circuit Court ruled: The right of the individual Americans to keep, carry, and acquaint themselves with firearms does indeed promote a well-regulated militia by fostering the development of a pool of firearms-familiar citizens that could be called upon to serve in the militia.

      There is no historical evidence that the Second Amendment was intended to convey militia power to the states or apply only to members of a select militia while on active duty. All of the evidence indicates that the Second Amendment, like other parts of the Bill of Rights, applies to and protects the individual Americans.
      The Supreme Court holds that it protects the right of individuals, including those not then actually a member of any militia or engaged in active military service or training, to privately possess and bear their own firearms, that are suitable as personal, individual weapons.

      Thomas Jefferson said, “No free man shall be debarred the use of arms.”

      Patrick Henry said, “The great object is, that every man be armed.”

      Richard Henry Lee wrote that, “to preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms.”

      Thomas Paine noted, “[A]rms . . . discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property.”

      Samuel Adams warned that: “The said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.”

  • Billy

    Bryan, integrity like you’ve shown here will take ITS further than any sponsor, magazine, advertisement, or what-have-you. Thanks for standing up for all of your fans and customers.
    Billy

  • vince

    Yet you are still selling the magazine

    • Billy

      Yeah, I’m sure they had already bought them. Surely you don’t expect them to just burn them or throw them out? Recoil has already gotten paid for it; there is no reason why ITS should lose money on the deal. For all we know, ITS is including a note with each mag sold letting people know why the mag won’t be carried anymore.
      Don’t be so quick to jump to conclusions.
      Billy

    • Please see my comment below addressing this. Thanks for your comment.

  • Excellent thoughts on the issue and perfect counteraction and response. You just earned a vocal customer and supporter for life!!

  • I’ve been hostile to HK for a while, for exactly the reasons you show. They are ultimately authoritarian, and I can’t shake the feeling that they would rather deal with a dictator who “makes the trains run on time” than civilians who actually run the trains.

    More importantly, I’m glad to have heard of this particular issue with RECOIL from you. Because frankly, had I heard later from another source, and found out that you were an advertiser there, I would have lumped you into the same “I love whoever is in charge, whoever is in charge” pile as HK. (And that would have been a shame, because you make good stuff.)

  • I also sent an email to Source Interlink informing them that I would no longer be consuming any more of their media, particularly MotorTrend products. They can write off RECOIL being a rag for tacticool dinks, but when it starts choking the golden goose (their flagship publication) then you are more likely to see movement.

  • Tim B

    Thanks for posting. I just picked this up today and saw your post after. Sad to see this and will reconsider my purchase in the future based on the mag’s direction in the future. Please keep us posted and thanks again for this service to your blog readers.

  • I appreciate you stopping the ad support of Recoil Bryan… shows you stand for what’s right and you’re good people. I need not repeat what everybody’s been saying and what you mentioned above in the article but… Recoil mag can kiss my white American ass and I’ll reconsider what good graces I’ve ever given towards H&K.

    Speaking of… I need to renew my ITS membership. Tally ho.

    @chuckreynolds

  • Patrick Wickersham

    So , if I understand correctly it is HK’s policy, and editor Tsai, is in trouble for NOT disagreeing with an advertiser? HK is perhaps the ones that need the lecture on sporting purposes, and the2nd Amendment. Not that it will matter, because the LE departments purchasing officers are usually politicians, not guys in the field. They will go merrily on their way, being stupid political desk poagues.. I think it is an unfortunate read stacked on a perfectly bollocksed policy by HK. And one day an advertiser is going to place an ignorant stipulation on one of your ads, and you will be faced with making the advertiser happy or your reading public.

    • Not sure if you’re addressing our advertising here on ITS, but we make no concessions with our advertisers and are very firm about what we do and do not allow in. Always has been that way and always will. Thanks for your comment.

  • Is it too late to recall my purchase of the magazine? I just ordered it from the ITS shop based on the ETA Trauma kit review, and then I saw all the “bad press” regarding the magazine, PLUS I have the iPad app! Now, being in Afghanistan, things move pretty slowly, so I haven’t been able to catch on everything that’s happening, but I still like to look through the mag and draw my own conclusions. If ITS is cancelling the magazine, then I might have to delete the app, and just toss issue #4 to the winds. If things change, then I may consider holding on for another issue…

  • Alejandro Escobar

    We all know the pen is mightier than the sword but WOW…. a few typed lines may be more dangerous for RECOIL than the MP7 could ever be.

    I for one am not ready to boycott the publication completely. The author did not consider his target audience and hopefully the publication will keep opinion out of its articles from on. However I am not a black and white type person. I have my opinion on 2A and what it means to me. I am open to others opinion up till a point and that article did not cross that line for me. So I will continue to monitor the publication to see what the future holds and will make my decision then.

    • jellydonut

      Consider that this is the *editor*, not simply an article author.

      What has to happen here is that the editor has to get the boot, plain and simple. First writing and publishing that tidbit, and then the bullshit apology where he stands by his viewpoint, then *deleting* that original (honest) ‘apology’ and writing something else where he plain lies about not agreeing with the H&K PR guy even though he has himself written earlier that he does, in fact, agree with him. Including in the magazine itself.

      RECOIL will have to replace this editor and post an actual apology rather than lies for people to buy their rag again.

    • Jeff Arms

      I agree everyone has opinions. However, the GOV has taken to many opinions and made them into law. I have worked for the GOV for most of my adult life and I for one own as many guns as possible as does my family. I have been hunting since 6yo as have my brothers and cousins and have yet to see a responsible adult/youth get in trouble for weapons if brought up the right way. I don’t need the GOV telling me what I can or cannot have. As for the Magazine (Recoil) I will never by another. Didnt need it anyway.

  • wingman

    ITS – way to go – I will be buying your – gear – whatever it is – just because of your unwavering support for the 2A and the admonishment of those that don’t – like RECOIL mag. I agree – the mag is great eye candy – but its all fluff no substance. And I hope that more advertisers will follow your example – just like Silencerco’s example – you stood for something greater than yourselves – you stood for the collective populous – in support of the 2A – and for this I applaud you!!! Keep it up!!!

  • Bpcargodog

    Proud to be an ITS member. Bryan you are a great American. Enemies of the constitution deserve no quarter.

  • thanks brother… we cannot afford quislings.

  • Lance

    Mike Cabrera, as a representative of HK with experience and qualifications, made a statement about why the MP7A1 was not being sold commercially. His statement was blunt, and not all readers may agree, but the least we can do is respect his opinion. As Tsai made clear in his follow-up, a lot of civilians would really like to own a MP7A1 but the reality is that HK says we can’t. He implies that the decision to draw that line was made by some very respectable people, and I have no doubt that a lot of thought went into that decision and what it means for second amendment rights.
    Now, Tsai obviously had a hard choice to make. He could show disrespect to Cabrera and HK by openly challenging their stance; he could do some sloppy journalism and not mention the unavailability at all; or he could convey the original statements in a way that (he hoped), most people would be able to appreciate. Agreeing or not is irrelevant, the point is that Tsai and RECOIL have behaved as professionally as possible and have avoided harming anyone’s rights. Notably, they supported Cabrera’s first amendment right to have his statement published to an appropriate audience.

    • jellydonut

      He didn’t simply reprint that statement. Here’s what Tsai said, before that quote, which was his own editorial opinion;

      ‘Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it.’

      That is not ‘conveying the original statement’. That is editorializing against the 2nd amendment using the same kind of bullshit ‘assault weapon’ line Feinstein, the Brady Bunch and others use.

      AR15s are made to put down scumbags as well. That’s WHY PEOPLE BUY THEM. To defend themselves, their family, their homes. I’m surprised and a little shocked that you are incapable of seeing what is patently wrong and anti-gun in this statement.

    • Bill

      Did you read the article? Mr Tsai did not “respect” or “disrespect” H&K, he openly agreed with them and really does not understand the spirit and the actual wording of the 2nd A. He has no business being an editor of a gun magazine.

      H&K is not a US company. They obviously do not hold US 2nd A values. This is their choice just as it is my choice to not own an H&K because of their opinion. If Mr. Tsai understood the 2nd A at all, he could have backed the 2nd Amendment without disrespecting H&K.

      This is just the fodder that anti-gunners like Bloomberg need to further their incremental gun control to where you would be lucky to own a slingshot.

  • if the government can have one, so should i.

  • MikeT

    ITS will now and forever have both my respect, and my business. I had bought the first three issues of RECOIL and was VERY impressed with it, I had held off getting a subscription wanting to make sure they kept the same high quality from issue to issue. Glad I held off after reading the article in this month’s issue. Thank you for being true Americans at ITS, Semper Fi.

  • Scott M

    I can’t stand the way he keeps referring to himself as an “enthusiast”. Maybe this is just a step-up departure for him from airsoft or something? Regardless, it was a screw-up, showed his stance, shows the arrogance we already knew H&K has, etc. To me, Recoil was a pretty cool magazine with a different layout than all the others. It felt very “civvie” oriented. It felt like watching an episode of something from GamerTV or something…with an entertainment edge vs. the generic tactical mag on the shelf.

    And to disarm the “non sporting purpose” comment he made… if a civilian version -were- made, who is to say you couldnt use it in shooting competition? The AR15/M16/Stoner (whatever you want to call it) was originally made for the military, to defend our soldiers (and kill people.). Now the AR15 is nearly a staple in the American civilian gun cabinet…with many sporting purposes and applications.

  • Jason Dellinger

    Bryan,

    One of the reasons that I feel that ITS is one of the premier sites on the web is that it holds true to what the Founding Fathers believed in that citizens are the militia NOT a standing army. ITS supports this by offering information and products geared to everyone and not LE/military first with a “nose-up” attitude towards civilians.

    One thing that we need to realize is that HK is a European company and as such is influenced much more by European ideals about guns, thus the “no sporting purpose” attitude. HK would be wise to remember that in America, profitable, long-term sales are driven by civilians NOT the military/LE. Colt learned this lesson the hard way and it nearly bankrupted the company.

    However, what Mr. Tsai needs to remember is that RECOIL is an American publication and should not be influenced by European attitudes. The fact is that the 2nd Amendment itself has no sporting purpose, but was instead intended to ensure that citizens had the tools to resist tyranny. “Sporting Use” is just a happy side-effect.

    When we consider that the 2nd Amendment was intended to resist tyranny, it may be that the MP7 is already in the “wrong hands” if it is a military/LE only weapon. I would encourage ITS/RECOIL magazine readers to research the position of Barrett Rifles on military/LE only weapons. Barrett Rifles manufactures the legendary Barrett M82/M107 .50 BMG rifles. These rifles are for sale to both civilians and military/LE equally and without modification for either market. These rifles, as with any firearm chambered for .50 BMG offers excellent body armor penetration at extended ranges. So what?

    As to the subject of “armor penetration”, wasn’t this covered when the FN PS90/Five-seveN was released for the civilian market? As I recall, this round was a prime target for the media because of it’s ability to penetrate armor and the ammunition capacity of weapons chambered for this round (30 rounds in the Five-seveN pistol with extended mag). Also of note is that the 5.7 X 28 cartridge was found superior to the HK 4.6 X 30 cartridge in NATO evaluations. The streets do not run red with blood from those killed with 5.7mm rounds that have penetrated body armor.

    • DonTapouT

      Couldn’t have said it better brother.

    • LFA

      In regards to the 5.7x28mm cartridge, FN restricts sales of steel cored rounds to military and law enforcement only (http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/law-enforcement/ammunition). If HK did offer the MP7A1 (or why not the MP7-SF?), a similar approach to restricting some/all 4.6x30mm ammunition sales would be likely. Given the confusion and notoriety surrounding the 5.7x28mm cartridge I am not surprised by HK’s staunch position even if it is unfortunate.

  • Landbarger

    I don’t believe the 2A has anything to do with the “sporting purpose” of “arms”. And because of that, I think that the explanation of his statement served nothing more than to reinforce the point Mr. Tsai had already made. I would sum that point up as, “We all like guns because guns are cool; since that’s what this magazine is all about, we can all be on the same politically correct page and increase our circulation.”

    I disagree with his misunderstanding of the 2A, but love the attempt RECOIL is making to capitalize on mainstreaming gun culture. Ultimately I think that’s a good thing. Anti-2A’s have lots of misguided logic they will continue to use, this portrayal only serves to disarm their accusations about gun owners (even if most of us do, actually, know better).

    I think this article deserves a sharp rebuke, but not a lock out from sponsorship. Give them a chance to fix it, they’re still new.

  • Lweson

    Check out Larry Correia’s infamous spoof letter from HK marketing department. It is hilarious but exactly to the point. http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/

    HK: because you suck and we hate you

  • D B

    I think the decision to pull support for RECOIL over this is truly outstanding. Taking a stand for what you believe in and sticking to it against advertising and it big money is something you dont see everyday but I wish we did. Thank you ITS.

  • Brav0Charlie

    They need to find people that understand the community better to be in charge of the magazine and write for it.

    The bigger question is how did Mr. Tsai pass muster to begin with? If Source Interlink Media are not advocates of the 2A and gun enthusiasts, and their employees are not then you have to question their sincerity.

    If the parent corporation are supporters and believe in the 2A and the “gun lifestyle”, then they should look at community leaders and hire them as advisers.

    Thank you for taking a stand I.T.S.. The only reason I was going to buy the issue to begin with was because your gear was featured.

  • Stephen Douglass

    Thanks for the heads up. After reading the article, and your reply, I can only wonder what this man was thinking. The only thing this “editor” has done is ostracize civilian’s, and forgot that there are “civilians” out here with class 2/3a firearms permit’s that DO allow people to lawfully own this weapon in question. There are people in Armed security field (still civilian) that may also own and or have access to them as well. This man is an idiot, and his “apology” is appalling.

    He further forget’s that there are many “Civilians” that are also veterans and like to stay current on things. I guess, unlike reporting news, which is supposed to remain objective and have no or little personal views, this guy informed me his own view of the Second amendment, which by the way, says nothing about LEO and Military use only.

    I do not cotton well with people who replace common sense with what sounds good at the moment.

  • Darin Kroger

    All it takes for evil to PREVAIL is for enough good men to do nothing!!! As an ITS Crew Leader supporter, I say “Well done ITS, keep up the good work!”

    Thx for providing the unedited information so that each of us can make up our own mind based on the facts. As excited as I have been to pickup each of the Recoil issues, I support your decision not to advertise and I will not purchase another issue until I see where they stand once the dust settles. Hopefully, they will do the right thing. Be blessed and again thanks for advocating for all of us and our 2A Constitutional RIGHTS.

  • Trevor

    Thanks for standing up and doing the Right thing!

  • Michael Hewett

    Recoil represents a huge shift and step forward in firearms magazines and it has been very intriguing to see what you have done with better photography and layout to bring a fresh look to the industry. Your efforts have captured a lot of people’s attention, until this weekend with the release of the 4th issue. This train wreck that your editor started then threw fire on with his follow up comment on FB is making a lot of people step back and reevaluate your magazine. I as well as many other potential readers and advertisers will be watching to see what your solution will be to the problem created by Mr tsai, and it will be what you do with him that will ultimately decide the fate of a promising magazine.
    Doc Hewett
    RSKTKR Consulting

  • Kenny

    Thank you for the article Bryan.

    (The following is my personal opinion. I am not saying anyone else is wrong, or that I am right. I am just stating my thoughts on the subject. I should also mention that I have not had a chance to read the complete article)

    I’m going to start by saying that I believe – wholeheartedly – in a person’s right to keep and bear arms. Something I like to say anytime I hear some anti-gun POG crying about how we can lower the rate of violent crimes if we take away everyone’s gun is this – “I’ll give up my Second Amendment rights when you give up your First Amendment rights.”

    From reading the comments so far, I can tell this could get a little heated. I normally stay out of conversations like this, but this touches a subject that is very dear to me. For the longest time, I have felt that gun control should be the responsibility of gun owners. It is the responsibility of EVERY gun owner to not only make sure we use our guns properly but also make sure our guns do not fall into the wrong (in this case “slimy”) hands. I have no idea what the actual numbers are, but I know a large percentage of the illegal guns out there were stolen from legal owners.

    As Bryan stated, the Second Amendment doesn’t put limits on what types of “arms” can be kept. However, when the founding fathers drafted the Bill of Rights and its amendments, I don’t think they had gas-operated, fully automatic, pocket sized machine guns capable of firing 950 rounds per minute at an effective range of 200 meters (Damn, I just got a slight chub thinking about that) in mind. The Revolutionary War had ended less than 10 years before the Second Amendment (along with the rest of the Bill of Rights) was adopted so that was still fresh in their minds. And although we don’t have an enemy army beating down the front gate, the current state of affairs in the world today make a lot of us want to go out and buy at least two MP7’s, one for each hand. I know I do.

    Again, I have not yet read the complete article, but just from the quote that Bryan posted here, the author and H&K are saying this weapon should not be available to civilians. In my very humble opinion, that in no way threatens our Second Amendment rights. They are not saying that civilians should not own firearms, they are only saying that civilians should not own THIS firearm.

    Unfortunately, the opinions of both sides of the “right to keep and bear arms” debate are very absolute. As gun owners, we all believe we have the right not only to own guns but to own as many guns as we want and any type of guns we want. The other (misguided) side believes that nobody should be allowed to own ANY guns. “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” There should/must be a middle ground.

    I find it a little strange that so many people are ready to condemn a magazine for one article. There are things I’ve read on this website that I do not completely agree with and some things I’ve read actually go against my personal beliefs, but I’m not going to stop coming here, nor am I going to stop buying ITS products because of that. EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion – that’s the First Amendment.

    • Brian

      The problem that I “see” with you logic is this…

      “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety” – Benjamin Franklin

      There is no middle ground with the Brady’s etc. They will not rest until first black rifles are banned for their scary looks. Then it will be the high capacity magazines in your hand guns (high meaning more than 5 rounds). Then they will come after your SA handguns and remaining rifles. At which point we are left with revolvers and BA rifles.

      The founding fathers certainly didn’t consider the awesome firepower of the M1 carbine, should it be banned. They didn’t dream of the internet or even telephones, should they be banned. Should we go back to horse drawn carriages because they didn’t consider cars.

      Of course not, humans evolve, societies evolve, technology evolves and the general principals of the Constitution that were laid down more than 200 years ago still hold true. If 2/3 of the people disagree (thankfully a simple majority doesn’t suffice) then the laws can be amended.

      About the only thing we agree on is that it is the responsibility of every gun owner to properly store and secure their weapons to prevent “slimy” hands or even young inexperienced hands from accessing them. That doesn’t effect my ability to KEEP of BEAR arms for myself. Other laws do.

    • Skip

      It is not one article, it is an obviously pervasive attitude by the Editorial Staff that could never be acceptable to anyone who avoids being “Sheepeople”.

      As for “they are only saying civilians should no own THIS firearm”….. actually what they said was (paraphrasing now)…. Civilians should only own guns that fit their definition of sporting use and not ones that are intended to fight other people.

      The fact is, since many of us don’t hunt for our food on a daily basis, guns are primarily used to protect us from other people.

      The more effective that tool is the better.

      I don’t want anyone telling me the best way to protect my family.

      But I guess you would be ok if “they” let you keep your bird guns and other guns that “they” think are acceptable for you.

      I hope you see the absurdity…..

    • Jason Dellinger

      Kenny,

      The problem people are having with this is not technical, but a matter of principal. If they (RECOIL magazine) misquote a spec or publish the opinion of HK alone, it wouldn’t be an issue.

      But when the writer (and Editor no-less) includes opinion in an otherwise technical article that runs 180 degrees counter to the fundamentals of the readership, it tends to upset folks, especially when it concerns our fundamental rights as Americans. We would expect a similar response from the readership of a motorcycling publication if it’s editor expressed opinion during a road test article that certain motorcycles should only be for sale to professional riders for on-track use and should never be allowed on the streets or in the “wrong hands”.

      Technicalities are easily understood and overlooked. Unsolicited opinion that runs counter to the core values of the majority of the readership as well as our Constitution is another matter altogether, especially when reinforced with a second public statement. It speaks highly of the readership of the magazine and this website that it was not allowed to pass without drawing fire.

      As to the idea of compromise on the Second Amendment, there’s nothing that proves that compromise is necessary when it comes to small arms. There are plenty of CIVILIAN Class 3 owners (full-auto) that lawfully and responsibly own full-size machine guns in addition to “pocket” models.

      Fully automatic fire doesn’t make a weapon any more or any less inherently damaging or destructive. Destructive potential is determined by the cartridge of the weapon of which the example in question is comparatively weak. Volume of fire is determined by magazine capacity which is augmented by rate-of-fire. There’s very little difference in 30 rounds in 8 seconds on semi-auto vs. 30 rounds in 2 seconds on full-auto in that we still have 30 rounds fired. There is a HUGE difference in controllability in full-auto vs semi which actually REDUCES effectiveness. We do not damage what we do not hit. FYI, there is no such thing as a “pocket machine gun”. By definition, a machine gun is a small arm that fires a rifle-caliber cartridge, usually from a disintegrating belt, which is intended for sustained fully automatic fire. Furthermore, it is usually mounted or crew serviced. The proper term for the weapon in the article in question is a “Machine Pistol”.

      Where the problem arises with compromise as it applies to the Second Amendment is that “unacceptable” begins to erode what is “acceptable” until we have nothing. If a 30-round magazine is “unacceptable” then what is “acceptable” and who determines it? And for what purpose? The fact is that LE officers are also CIVILIANS and we should expect the same arms in our gun cabinet as those in our local police station. As to the intent of our Founding Fathers, there is no exception for cannon in the Second Amendment and they were widely employed during that time period.

      In summary, we have an Editor who is technically and principally unsound when it comes to the content of his own articles. We can only assume that the direction and information featured in the magazine will be compromised in other ways as long as he serves as editor.

      As a Life Member, I support ITS in it’s decision to remove it’s advertising dollars as long as Mr. Tsai serves as editor for RECOIL magazine.

    • Kenny

      I too support ITS in its decision – I just don’t agree with it. “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”

      No, Mr. Tsai should not have voiced his opinion in a technical article. Again, I have not read the entire article or even seen the issue. I am only going by the quote that Mr. Black posted here.

      I read something once – and I think it was here, but I cannot seem to find the article again – about gun control and how we – as gun owners/advocates – should be seen. Instead of saying you’re “pro-gun,” the article said to answer that you’re pro-rights. The anti-gun folks are looking more and more like fanatics because they want to take legally owned firearms from legal owners just because criminals comment violent crimes with firearms. And, when we start crying about having our Second Amendment rights violated when some non-American company says they won’t offer certain firearms to civilians, we look just as fanatical.

      My point is, as far as I can tell from the quote posted here, neither the author nor the gun manufacturer mentioned anything about the Second Amendment. Again, going only from the quote posted here, the federal government is not saying civilians cannot own an MP7, it’s H&K saying it. And, in my humble opinion, H&K hasn’t been too friendly to civilian gun owners in the past, so I doubt I would actually buy an MP7 even if it was available for civilian consumption.

  • Josh

    Thank you for being a company willing to stand up for our 2A rights. I hadnt previously heard of you guys, but will definitely check out your stuff for my near future purchases. Thanks.

  • Michael

    Bryan,

    I was very happy to receive the previous issues of Recoil. I am disappointed be the statement that Jerry wrote.
    I support ITS tactical’s decision on this matter and will continue to support your mission. Thank you for standing by your principles.

  • Gene

    I had just ordered that issue on my last order to ITS…I agree with you on pulling any advertising with them until the point comes where they fire the Editor and replace him with someone that supports our 2A Rights!

  • 5Solas

    Bryan, thank you for doing what you do and in this case, standing up for what is right and doing the right thing. You could have let this “slide” but chose the high road; thank you. I will continue to support you and ITS for this exact reason.

  • Joe

    Good Job Bryan,

  • Sean

    Ok what about to say is counter to everything on this threat and I am sure I will get yelled at for it but what the hell hear goes.

    Bryan, I am going to be honest with you but I think that you over reacted in this circumstance. In fact I would go so far as to say that the entire community is completely over reacting to this situation. I mean I just saw SSD post that another company is giving a discount on its products to people who post pictures of RECOIL with a bullet through it. WTH?!?!
    I can completely understand why people will take exception to what the editor wrote in their most recent issue of the magazine; it was poorly worded and made a horrible point. There is no “sporting use” restriction on the 2nd amendment, if there was we wouldn’t have concealed carry laws in this country. Would I like to see a civilian MP-7 oh you bet yea, I would also love a Civilian MP-5 as well, but I know that not going to happen either. Frankly they are not any more or less lethal then an M-4, and the point that was made about not letting them fall into the wrong hands is stupid. I have spoken to some HK reps and gotten the same dumb responses from them. I just surged my shoulders and thought to myself, “well sucks you are going to lose a sales because now I am just going to go buy that SIG I want instead.” Honestly I have never lost any sleep over it.
    But I am going to say this again I think people are WAY over reacting to what was said by the editor of RECOIL! This is the new kid on the block and while they put their foot collective mouths I honestly can’t understand throwing the baby out with the bath water in this case. Do they need to be slapped for what they said…yes most defiantly. But this I can’t believe what everyone is saying that they should be burned at the stake and banished for all time for what one person said in one paragraph. Is this really what the community is all about? Frankly the fact that people want absolute devotion to a certain dogma is wrong headed; we should always have room for different points view in the pro-gun community. We need to be able to have an intelligent conversation about what should and shouldn’t be allowed in your regular civilian’s hands. There is a reason why we don’t let just any Joe buy a fully automatic firearm without some serious background checks. I am all for have background checks while also giving firearm enthusiasts the most access the widest array of weapons they can. More good people with guns, and less crazy people with guns the better. It is why I have become such a proponent of concealed carry. However if someone takes a position that this gun or that shouldn’t be in the hands of civilians then that is there opinion no matter how wrong headed it may or may not be. We should have intelligent conversation not people standing up and screaming a pox upon your house and you shall be thrown out of the church of the gun! Come on I know the shooting community is smarter than this, this is a tempest in a teapot and people need to calm down.

  • tyl34

    thank you its for standing up for what is right. i thoroughly enjoyed this magazine – but it is clear that the left leaning liberals from california who write this magazine are brady campaigners. i don’t care what they claim – it is clear this is a psy op on the gun community. i say lets put a moratorium on recoil until Jerry Tsai is fired and a public statement released.

  • Richard

    I, for one, will be purchasing a subscription for RECOIL now.
    Why? Because the 1st Amendment is JUST AS ESSENTIAL to our liberty and freedom as the 2nd is.

    It’s an editorial. An *opinion*.
    Just as ITS has their opinion on his opinion, it’s his right to make it.

  • spenceman

    Bryan, I’m very glad to see that you too are taking a strong stand on this. I saw Silencerco’s tweet about this article, and they are pulling all Silencerco/SWR advertising. Hopefully RECOIL pulls their heads out of their collective ass, and fires those involved, as well as issuing a sincere apology/retraction. Otherwise they will probably go under.

    On a side note, the as cool as the MP7 is, I wouldn’t buy one if i could. I’m kind of tired of all these niche calibers. Innovation is great and all but without adequate ammo availability the weapons themselves tend to go extinct quickly. Also, I wouldn’t settle for some neutered version of the gun like they did with the G36/SL8, UMP/USC. Despite the excellent quality of their firearms, HK has a long history of being hostile to civilian ownership. Bad business.

  • Matt

    Yea, I’m going to say you guys need to read the second amendment again. Let me make it easy.

    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    In no way was the editor saying we should not be able to keep and bear arms. He stated a highly specialized weapon is to be kept out of the hands of the public. With many of you freaking out so much about not being able to buy your own MP7, I’m all for the fact you CAN’T get one for yourselves.

    It’s like saying, OK THOSE DRUG DEALERS HAVE SHOT GUNS AND PISTOLS AND WE HAVE MP7’s SO WE KNOW WE HAVE MORE FIREPOWER. And another thing to go, THOSE DRUG DEALERS HAVE MP7’s AND WE HAVE MP7’s, SO I WONDER HOW THIS IS GOING TO TURN OUT. BUT THANK GOD FOR THE PERSON THAT MADE THESE AVAILABLE TO CIVILIANS!

    Tell me which one sounds better?

    Heck, why not drive a tank around while you’re at it? Oh you can’t buy one of those or the ammo for it! Let’s freak out and claim our constitutional rights are being taken away from us!!!

    Freedom of Speech people. Heaven forbid someone says something you don’t like!

    If the Government stopped dealing with people that did or said something they didn’t like, guess how much stuff they’d get done?

    • Jason Dellinger

      Matt,

      Actually, I would greatly prefer if the Government got much less done as it always costs me money or freedom and usually, both.

      The Colt Peacemaker, Winchester ’94 lever-action, and Thompson .45 sub-machine gun were all “highly specialized weapons” of their time and all available for civilian purchase (the Thompson in full-auto no less) and we didn’t exterminate ourselves or law enforcement. So the MP7 is different how? Before you answer, research the ballistics of the 4.6 X 30mm round of the MP7 vs. the .30-30 Winchester cartridge of the 1894 Winchester rifle I just mentioned.

      As to “freaking out”, you’re the one typing in all caps about drug dealers!?!

    • Skip

      No they are not saying we can have arms….

      They just think they should decide which ones…..

      A small point that makes all the difference I reasonable man would agree.

  • A few have questioned our stance on future sales of our in-house copies of RECOIL Magazine and this hand-signed letter that is going out with every copy of RECOIL magazine (both before the controversy and after) addresses this:

    Thank you for purchasing RECOIL Magazine from ITS Tactical. In this issue (page #35), Editor Jerry Tsai chose to utter statements that were contrary to our core values here at ITS and we will no longer be carrying future issues until we hear from Source Interlink Media (RECOIL’s parent company) publicly on their stance and future direction without Mr. Tsai as Editor.

    We have invested a lot in RECOIL, both financially with our advertising dollars and purchasing issues to distribute. In light of Mr. Tsai’s comments we’ve since cancelled future plans to advertise or distribute.

    ITS Tactical, along with many of our friends in the industry are left to recover from the damage that Mr. Tsai has caused. We will continue to sell the copies we have left of the magazine, as there’s no way for us to recoup the financial burden created.

    By having purchased this magazine, you’re still supporting the advertisers in this issue who were all caught off guard by Mr. Tsai’s comments and thought we were supporting a like-minded organization.

    The official stance of ITS Tactical surrounding the RECOIL controversy is posted here: http://itstac.tc/NV495P I encourage you to read through my thoughts, as I address the original issue and Mr. Tsai’s original rebuttal on the RECOIL Facebook page.

    Thanks for your continued support,
    Bryan Black, Editor-in-Chief

    • lester

      you could always have us donate and have a contest of who destroys the magazine the best . IE target practice anyone . most creative legal way of magazine destruction wins some swag .

    • Sorry Lester, but I don’t agree with that. I understand your want to deface the image of the magazine, but you’re also defacing the advertising of the companies that are standing up to them. It just doesn’t sit well with me. I do appreciate your support though.

    • lester

      ok i will just use the letter from the editor page from that issue for target practice . no advertising companies who stand up for 2 amendment rights were hurt during this range session .

  • Carl

    I’m bummed that I found out about all of this shortly after ordering this mag from you. About 10 minutes after I ordered it actually.

    • Carl

      At least I can say that I’m not supporting them, but rather helping ITS cut its losses.

  • mike skoog

    It is things like this that make me very happy to be a life member. Integrity and honesty are not just words but words that have meaning and are at the forefront of everything done by ITS.

    The brain damaged editor of Recoil needs to be fired with extreme prejudice. Now.

    I’ve already canceled all of my subscriptions (some of which I’ve had for a pretty long time now) and told Source Interlink (SI) I wouldn’t be buying any more of their publications until this is dealt with. I’ve passed it on to practically everyone I know who subscribes to any SI rag. Source Interlink can get bent.

  • Doug

    Right on ITS! I can only opt to not buy their magazine, you as an advertiser will have much more impact! I love the magazine and would continue to buy it if they remove their editor. I said the same on their Facebook page, he really showed his true colors and no amount of backpeddling will get him out of it.

    He probably only regrets forgetting to add “these weapons belong on foriegn battlefields, not on our city streets”…unless carried by police or military used as police…on our city streets. Huge double standard that is in direct opposition to the spirit of the second amendment!

  • montgomerygentryFan

    I have never owned a H&k firearm of any sort and probably never will since I live in CA and they are hard to come by. In an alternate reality if for some reason the MP7 was legal to own in this state I still wouldn’t buy one due to the cost and the fact I really don’t care one way or the other for it.

    However what I can’t stand is someone passing judgement over us responsible gun owners when they themselves apparently know very little if nothing about what they’re talking. I don’t know the editor from a random guy off the street, but the fact he echoed something a Brady campaign representative would say pisses me off.

    There are plenty of similar options in terms of size and ballistics that either match or outperform the MP7 that are owned by private gun owners who follow the law and pay their taxes. Just because they are not LE or MIL does this qualify them as being “the wrong hands”? The fact is the wrong hands/bad guys seem to get select fire weapons just fine even though we law-abiding citizens are restricted to certain types already.

    While he isn’t the first nor certainly the last, I hope if anything this serves as an example so this mistake isn’t repeated.

  • Rick

    I expect to be downvoted into oblivion for my comment, but I will no longer be supporting ITS Tactical due to the knee-jerk reaction over an editorial. Editorials are strictly the opinion of the editor, not the other writers or the magazine itself. This isn’t new or news. He manned up and apologized for his editorial. The fact that so many sheeple are calling for a man to lose his livelihood is simple gang behavior.

    You’ve made your decision to pull your support with a fresh, new magazine with a small blemish; great. That’s your decision.
    I’ve also made my decision to pull my support of a great site over what in my opinion is a knee-jerk reaction. That’s my decision.

    All the best.

  • i considered buying a copy of Recoil at Walgreen’s a few days ago. I will no longer consider buying it as long as the current editor continues his tenure.

  • BLACK

    I feel like I am in one of those fabreeze commercials. Here I thought this was fresh air I was breathing but its actually been horse s*** the whole time.
    My hats off to you gents for being hasty at hanging out the dirty laundry.

    Cheers

  • Chad L

    I’m not defending the words spoken by an HK rep, although I do rely on HK pistols for duty/ccw. They make exceptional firearms that I trust my life to. I think before anyone blows HK off, they should consider the policies & views towards guns from a European country & how that plays into corporate decisions. One should also know that 95% of people who work for ANY gun company are not gun guys/gals. It’s just another mfg or sales job for them; they could just the same have been working for Ford. US law prevents average Joe’s from owning that particular firearm, not HK. HK is out to make money. Do you think it’s more profit for them to sell a semiauto UMP or the butchered up clone we have here in the US, to comply with US law? Don’t pass judgement on a whole product line or company for that matter because of what one person says.

  • waykno

    Mr. Black: I concur with you 100%.

  • Omer Baker

    I bought the iTunes subscription so I’m stuck with it for the next 10 months. I appreciate the incite, here in the communist run state of Illinois we are so often told we can’t have something for our own good that I forget that it isn’t that way everywhere. Yet there’s more crime in the 15 mile radius of my house than there is in most states!

    • Jake

      I just bought a .22 Marlin tube-fed semi-auto from Walmart last Friday and it was ridiculous. I gave the money to my step-dad so I wouldn’t have to wait til this Thursday to get it. They charged a separate $5 for a background check on him. He’s had his CWP for years and doesn’t like to share what’s in his arsenal, but you can tell he has a lot. The cashier had to get someone from the “safety team” over to us to ensure the transaction was proper, then he had to carry the boxed rifle and escort us to the door before handing the box to me. It’s ridiculous.

    • Bergman

      Um. You do realize, don’t you, that while your intent maybe was not criminal per se, your action meets all the technical criteria of a straw man sale?

    • Tim Soldotna

      Yeah man, what you did was illegal. You should have just bought it for yourself and not made a strawman purchase. You could both be in a lot of trouble.

  • Kudos to you guys for being above board on this one and exposing the issue. Despite the editorial, it was still pretty cool to see your product in print. Keep up the great work!

  • Bill McKay

    The magazine editors’ opinion is obviously skewed by his inner-man telling him that “he” is “special”. That because of his acquaintances, ( he did say he was not either LE or Mil.) and position, he was more qualified to judge what others may own or use.

    Was he right? I know that being in the gun biz for most of my 56+ years, there are LOT”S of people that shouldn’t own anything sharper than a tennis ball, let alone a firearm of ANY kind, but if we follow the logic as it is handed down by our constitution, NOBODY has the right to tell you what firearm to own…… nor anything else for that matter.

    This reads like something written by a guy who we would accuse ,(in my younger years) of one who believes his own BS about himself.

    Ignore the fool…and DON”T patronize his mag or give him any of your money! Simple?

    • acme

      Your freedom to be you includes my freedom to be free from you. Most people seem to be getting that, some don’t and it’s kind of a shame but it is their problem.

      I still kinda wish I could get my hands on a first issue. :p Anyone willing to give one up yet?

    • Omer Baker

      A Wilkow listener? I have to admit that I enjoy his show.

    • Bear

      Why is every one so pissed. He just stated what the company said they made the gun for just LE and military is it really that wrong that a company made one gun that was not for civilians. Not every gun owner has the intents to use a gun for sport,hunting ,self defense.thier are idiots out there who will kill and destroy people lives with no regard. They didn’t say we shouldn’t have guns he works for a magazine that promotes safe gun use. I support this magazine.some of theses people that bad mouth this issue might have family members in military or police and what if they had to go against automatic weapons wiith rounds that can cut through armor like butter.one gun off limits is not that big a deal. Lets just realize that when they said slimy hands they meant the people who use guns for intimidation and violence not the people who are law bidding citizens so I support recoil and HK for protecting are military and LE from the evil in the world.

  • hotshot0891

    I wish people would stop focusing on sporting purposes for firearms. I am not as experienced enough for this to carry as much weight but the more people concentrate on firearms being of a “sporting purpose” the more we are restricted. We were given the second amendment so we could defend ourselves from tyranny not so we could have sporting firearms. If they sell body armor on the open market why is it not acceptable to purchase firearms and ammunition that can defeat body armor?

    • Bergman

      We might eventually need to codify self defense as a sport. Have rules, technical fouls and tournaments with simulated attackers. Award trophies to the winners.

      Why yes, my M72 IS indeed sporting equipment, officer! =P

  • Greg Faherty

    Damn. I have only bought one issue of Recoil and I enjoyed it very much, instantly went online to see if I could subscribe. Recoil is how I found ITSTactical.com. It is going to hurt to boycott this magazine but as a matter of principle, how can I continue to support it?

    Bryan, I respect you for taking a position on this, especially when it could hurt your business. Well done.
    G.

    • Doug Hormann

      You can support it the same way you support another’s right to free speech. I don’t agree with everything all of my elected representatives do or believe in, but if I were to stop voting for people because we disagree on one issue, what does that say about the issues we agree on? People who stop patronizing a magazine because of one editorial comment will soon have few magazines to read. It’s as if some people think we need to check our opinions at the door when we start talking about guns. Regarding Illinois and communism, I don’t agree with that state’s stance on gun control, but I remember on dangerous aspect of communism that seemed to parallel some of the statements here, e.g. if you don’t conform to the party line in every detail (or in this case, the views of some intolerant members of the firearms crowd) you will be publicly pilloried and accused of all sorts of vile things. That’s a pretty piss poor example of patriotism, but that’s just my opinion.

  • Wolfy Wolf

    “no sporting purpose”… ???? HUH??? My ‘sporting purpose’ of any firearm is to point it down range, pull the trigger, hear the bang, and see the hole appear in the target!!!! Anything from an antique muzzle loader to a Barrett .50, what KIND it is is irregardless, its solely contigent of WHAT it is, and that is that ‘it’s’ a firearm. Being proficient in using any tool in the toolbox is a challenge for anyone, and many take it much more seriously than others. I mean really, who doesn’t like hitting a target A MILE AWAY with something the diameter of roughly a DIME??? This editor seriously needs to have his hidden liberal credentials checked, because he is doing more HARM to the Second Amendment than he is to helping anything … or anyone!

  • Sam

    Canceling my subscription when I get home from work today. Always surprises me when someone digs themselves a hole and refuses to admit they made a mistake.

  • Michael Trantham

    Bryan,
    As a fellow Texan and life long gun owner (had my first bb gun at 6, and my first 20gauge at 11), I wholeheartedly support your actions and that’s why I signed up and supported your sight. I could tell from just the first couple of days of reading that you’re a no Bull-Shit kind-of-guy.

    Keep up the good work here at ITS Tactical.

  • Ken

    Wow!

    Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is rampant in some LEO circles. I’ve gotten into heated discussions with squad mates over the issue of civilians having the same gear as LEO. I generally end it with something to the effect that unless you can guarantee to be on scene when my wife or my daughter needs you there then don’t restrict their choices.

    As far as limiting weapons to LEO or military it seems at least once a quarter to hear of some SWAT guy’s patrol car or MP’s POV in this state being broken into and some pretty powerful weapons being put on the street–along with armor, accessories, and uniforms. Within the last month a gun shop was broken into and a large number of camouflaged M4s were stolen–one of which turned up just outside my own patrol area.

    Street cop concerned over a H&K MP7A1 because it can penetrate IIIa? There’s a lot out there that can.

    While I agree with H&K having the right to make the decision to not sell to civilians, I don’t think they made the right choice. For a gun enthusiasts magazine to agree such a statement because of the “sporting” factor goes against the “Home & Personal Defense” tagline directly below the name of their magazine and is, well, just asinine.

    • Bergman

      Police are active service militia. If you can vote and are subject to a hypothetical draft notice, you are inactive militia. Forbidding inactive militia to train with, possess or even touch active militia equipment can have no other effect than to render them useless in the event a general militia activation becomes necessary. Granted, such an activation is unlikely to be necessary. But the law is the law, and the Founders put that into the law for very good reasons.

  • AJ

    Seeing that the editor has just taped the proverbial claymore to his forehead and detonated , might I suggest to the powers at be behind the magazine to rebrand themselves as ” NORECOIL” . Just focus on the airsoft industry where their products are classified as mostly for sporting purposes only.

  • James Chao

    I must say I have a great respect for those that have the moral and intellectual integrity to stand by their convictions regardless of how hard a decision it may be given the current economic environment. Kudos to everyone at ITS Tactical.

  • First of all great well written article Bryan, it is good to know the ITS along with many other companies is upset with the comments from RECOIL.

    ITS will always have my support.

  • ITS Customer

    When we see this kind of polarization, zero-tolerance, zero-sum thinking from leadership in Afghanistan–or for that matter in Washington D.C., we criticize it…

    If a drifting hooner who’s new to the gun world got some trigger time on an exotic system, drank the kool-aid that the LE and corporate reps served and committed a thoughtcrime to print, take him out to the woodshed for some wall-to-wall counseling about journalistic objectivity.

    One thing that I’ve noticed is that the gun world is inhabited by 4 species: good (current and former) cops, effective (current and former) military, people who love to shoot and a bunch of slightly damaged people dismissive and distrustful of the other three species. This last crew speaks loudly and carries big sticks–and ban hammers on the internet forums they dominate.

    I think some of the loudest b*tching about this deal comes from wannabes, used-to-bes and never-weres who are angry and jealous that they don’t rate, and jealous that the coolness that a gun pictured in “No Easy Day” or news clippings of apex predator LE elements going against the hardest of cases will NEVER be in their reach, for ANY price–whether or not they ever bet between 18X or 11B, SEAL or Undez, or even took the “easy” route and embarked on that long LONG road to SWAT/ESU after long nights on FTO and even longer nights in a solo car.

    Funny thing is that Jerry Tsai didn’t make the pronouncement that the unwashed will never feel the greatness of the MP7. That would be HK, FAMOUSLY dismissive of individual purchasers. ANYONE WHO WANTS ONE can buy a FN57. Yeah I know that’s like comparing Fuji and Delicious Apples. But still Apples. Problem is (a) you’ll have a helluva time getting the “cool” ammo for it and (b) anyone who knows anything will tell you for 99.999% of personal defense scenarios, a 9MM that you can get HIGHLY proficient with will serve you just fine.

    If a bunch of RECOIL advertisers wanna burn a pile of money cutting ties, so be it. I’ll continue to read RECOIL as long as I can derive value from it. Losing it will be like breaking up with that incredibly hot girlfriend who was kinda ditzy–a little less beauty in my life. And EVEN THOUGH an ITS product made the cover of a magazine where a key member of the editorial staff split the wrong hair, I’ll continue to drop coin here. Assuming my money is still good.

  • TripWire

    I am glad to see ITS do the right thing and cancel advertising with this rag. I am very disappointed at this turn of events because it was such a fun, exiting magazine. But, you cannot alienate the very people that you want to buy your product and stay in business very long. A very stupid thing to do and the apology was as bad as the original statements. RIP Recoil. Oh well, long live ITS. Great job guys.

  • Bpcargodog

    @ITS Customer – it seems the point has been lost on you. This isn’t about H&K or their “cool guy” guns. It’s primarily about the 2nd amendment. Since when did the 2A have a sporting clause? It doesn’t because it was installed in the constitution to keep the government in check and provide for national security. Sure it was written in the age of muskets, but that’s all that governments had then too. Remember privateers? That was the navy once upon a time. There is no good reason for citizens NOT to be able to own these weapons, and If a militia of citizens sounds rediculous in this day and age, maybe someone should tell Switzerland that.

    A secondary point would be that Mr Tsai lacks a basic knowledge of his audience, subject material to be covered, and probably worst of all- editorial skills. If he was merely reporting that H&K did not sell much to civilians than why not simply say that? Using the editorial, he continued down a typical anti-gun path for a paragraph. I think what has most of us so riled up is not that he holds this opinion, but that he’s making money from us and holds this opinion out for our consumption in his magazine. He then followed up with an apology/excuse that said “sorry you heard me wrong” and “don’t shoot the messenger” complete with typos! What an editor! What else can we expect when he controls the content? Now give me a good reason to buy this rag.

    As for H&K, I could care less if I ever get to shoot anything they make again. I shot the USP 40 the other day and wasn’t impressed at all – granted lots of people love em, and I’m sure it’s fine German engineering and all that…I’ll still take my American made 1911 and AR, or even the affordable Glock. I’m sure the BMW is a wonderful car and far superior in many ways to the Ford I drive, but its not for me.

    Someone else said it better “HK has never really been a ‘consumer’ company: “We’re HK, and you and [everyone else] sucks [unless we deign to sell you something]” has pretty much been my perception of their ongoing PR stance. It’s (arm-wavingly) essentially a European company with a US sales office, so right to bear arms concepts are gonna come hard to them – especially when they think their sales might be politcally affected by a pro-freedom political stance. HK’s branding, even on the consumer front, appears to me to offer far more of an “HK is cool toys” sentiment than any “HK is part of freedom’s toolkit”.

  • Mike

    I was taken a back when I read this article because I, to, believed this to be turning point for the gun world and 2nd Amendment supports when it comes to a magazine. It is very disheartening for me as a Military member and a current Law Enforcement officer that he would say the things he did, using us as an excuse. I point out, “

I accepted their answer for what it was out of respect for those serving in uniform.” If this was the case, He would not have made the statements he did, and its obvious he thinks that ‘those serving in uniform’ are going to let him use us to hide behind, when in all reality, he made the statement he did because that is what he believes. I have given up support of this publication, as have a multitude of my fellow officers and friends.

    This is my rant, in the nicest way I could put it.

    Mike-

  • GreenTip556

    This idea that popped into Mr. Tsai’s head should have been aborted shortly after conception.

    A weapon system is nothing more than a delivery platform for ammunition. Clearly some are of higher quality and have different applications, but as long as the ammunition for this particular weapon system is sold in the PUBLIC MARKET, what threat have you eliminated by not allowing the MP7 or arguing FOR it’s restriction? What about the FN 5.7? What about the public proliferation of body armor to the point where an unlawful user/active shooter may rear their ugly head under a MICH helmet? By immediately taking the manufacturer’s position, I’m seriously questioning Mr. Tsai’s objectivity on the 2nd Amendment.

    The capabilities of the weapon system as a fully automatic would clearly be altered for public sale as per the Machine Gun Ban, it would HAVE to be registered as an NFA Short Barreled rifle and would thus BE REGISTERED WITH THE ATF so we would know if it posed a risk to Law Enforcement if a potential unlawful user was identified (not that there is EVER time to check anyways when time-is-life for civilian victims). And can someone explain to me what increased danger a FEDERALY REGULATED firearm presents as opposed to carbine conversion systems such as the one developed by Sig Suaer?

    This guys arguement has so many holes and far reaching implications, it’s hard to see the benefit of printing that even if it’s how he feels.

    But hey, what to I know right?

    • Bergman

      I read (on another blog) an interesting comment to the effect that the MP7 uses a cartridge that is generally inferior to a .22 WMR (same bullet weight, lower velocity) in performance. A small game hunting/plinking round that can outperform the Big Scary PDW? Seriously?

  • John Sully

    As a reader of this magaazine, I accept his apology as I will accept Bryan Black’s apology for his grammatical mistakes he provided in his writing. Being an editor, you need to proofread your work before submitting. Obviously both Jerry and Bryan did not do this; and in doing this, both have let things slip through their grasp. I think if RECOIL had a different agenda, they would be publishing this magazine. I will contiue to read both from this site and RECOIL and not continue to fuel the fire. Bryan, editor-in-cheif, please learn the difference between to, too, and two. Thank you.

    • John, please tell me where I made mistakes in improperly using to, too and two. I’m not seeing it and trust me, I haven’t already edited it. What I did see in your comment is the improper spelling by an “editor” of the word “magaazine” and “editor-in-cheif.” Please don’t come here spouting off about my errors when you can’t proofread your own comment. Are you trying to compare a simple spelling or grammatical mistake in an article I’ve written, to the issue that Mr. Tsai is dealing with now?

  • Sean

    I enjoyed the first three issues of RECOIL, but I will not be enjoying them anymore. This is my choice, just as others may choose to keep reading it. It was a very well put together magazine and I understand why so many will keep reading it. We all have different reasons for supporting or not supporting RECOIL. What I would love to see is some good old fashioned competition. Someone, somewhere out there should start a weapons life style magazine similar to RECOIL. (Maybe call it REDUCED RECOIL! joke) Let the consumer decide who has the better magazine for their money.

  • Ken

    Foxtrot alpha, Bryan.

  • John C

    Damn I liked that mag too. Guess I’ll stick to reading it in the magazine aisle at the store, and buying something else to take home to read.

  • Tego

    I find it funny, and sad that people are so willing to jump on RECOIL for this. I just picked up the issue today (after i read 2 articles on this issue) because it isn’t our choice as to who a foreign company is going to sell their product to. H&K doesn’t make it available to the public in the USA. and frankly I don’t blame them, for multiple reasons, including it being a really nasty piece of hardware. H&K doesn’t see a profit margin in bringing it here. First it would have to be semi auto for civi ownership. Though no one seems willing to call out the ATF on closing the transferables registry in 1986. Maybe with that H&K would see profit. Without it, it just isn’t worth it because it would mean redesigning the gun. Second it would be classed an SBR in many states which depending on where you are means either it gets a comical barrel extension or you cant own it. And again no one seems to have thought to mention this. Third to sell it here most of it would have to be made here. That is current gun law. Yet everyone is mad that the 4th reason is about it being a really nasty weapon. I agree that impinging on the rights of those who will safely use the weapon is a bad thing, but I don’t know how to keep it out of the hands of those who would see wrong done with it.

    Remember H&K is a company If they thought they could make a profit selling the MP7 in the USA in the severely restricted capacity they would need to, to make it legal, They would do it. Bottom line is that while there is a demand for the weapon from the civi world here there isn’t enough of one to make the investment worth wile for the company.

    So you might ask why make the statement? well it sounds good to gun control groups. It makes them think that the company is doing the right thing in their eyes. Not bad PR for any company. And if the the gun owners part of the population was smart enough they would see this.

  • Joel

    These are the exact words that came out of my mouth as I was reading and complaining about the article. This really hit the nail on the head. They should drop Mr. Tsai as an editor. He may like guns, but he does not understand his audience/readers.

  • Daniel J. Hull, MD

    I think that the editor must be a liberal minded type who can best judge what is best for us from his chair. If you are of like mind please vote for Obama. I on the other hand I love shooting and firearms. I enjoy my
    Hk 45 sitting on my desk as I write this. I enjoy my LWRCI M6 with ET tech scope and all the other firearms, knives, and equipment that I train with as a civilian. I frequently shoot with other civilians, military and DOD guys. You need a new editor! He obviously does not understand the Shooting Life Style or the readers of your excellent publication. Working in an emergency room gives me a different perspective on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

    Eagle river, Alaska.

  • Chelsea

    I disagree with you. I also am an avid gun enthusiast and LOVE this magazine. What are you trying to do? Kill this amazingly awesome magazine in its infancy? You are the ones at fault here. Have you been infiltrated by anti-gun lobbyists or have you knocked your noggin? The fact that this magazine brings to light guns not sold to civvies should tell you that the opinion of Jerry Tsai is that us civvies should know about them. Duh. So don’t get your panties in a wad, boys. Imagine the civvies being from another country and hostile toward those whom this gun is made specifically for. Now can you see what this article is showing you? This gun is cool. End of story.

    • J

      Go read about the Second Amendment Commie.

    • Rocco G

      Chicks aren’t that smart. Just look at the majority that voted for Obuma.

  • Mac

    I have to say that from my perspective, this whole thing was blown WAY out of proportion. As an inner city narcotics investigator in a drug squad, I don’t have any problem with the comments made by Jerry Tsai. I served in the US Army as a infantryman overseas, and I strongly believe in Americas 2nd Amendment… However, I agree with the simple statements that this gun should not end up in the wrong hands. If you are offended by the phrase “slimy hands” maybe there is something wrong with you and you shouldn’t own any guns at all! There is no “sporting” purpose for a rifle caliber sub machine gun with armor piercing capabilities. Yes, we’d all like to own and shoot one of these… but the truth is that in my district alone, we have seized hundreds of stolen guns this year (during drug raids and felony vehicle stops) including law enforcement weapons like the Mp5. That’s ONE district out of 9. Work in my shoes and you’d feel a little differently.

    • Rocco G

      You should turn in the drugs you find instead of using them.

  • Pete in Alaska

    Soooooo here we are months down this road. What’s going on with this issue? Are we getting a new editor? Has his been cleared up and settled? Inquiring minds an all.

    Pete sends . . .

  • Pete in Alaska

    And just a comment about all those firearms that “can’t be sold to the public in general”. There is actually a number of states that allow the sale of Class III firearms to privet ownership. This includes the MP7A1 and some of his brothers an sisters like the MP5, MP10, Uzi and others of the same family tree. Of course that means that you are lucky enough to live in one of the great States of this Republic that still believes in the 2nd and trust their law abiding firearm owners. These are states that have not been infected by fear and knee jerk reactionary politics or by the excessive need for control of the voting public by the Fienstienian/Obama Uber Liberal National Socialistic Movement in their drive to make the Republic over in there image and political ideology.
    So, maybe if you want to own of these Class III platforms maybe you should consider moving to AZ or WYO. Just saying . . . . .

  • Titanbear

    The bottom line is I will still buy this magazine, it’s the best out there as far as quality design. Do I always agree, no, but it doesn’t preclude me from enjoying the overall mag. As far as the 2nd Amendment, every law abiding citizen (not temporary or non-permanent) should be able to own any class of firearm for his or her defense of their home, family and constitutional rights. Freedom of speech in the 1st, freedom to prevent the government from taking that speech in the 2nd and not having to quarter those government troops in the 3rd! It’s not whether we defend ourselves from “slimy hands” but government slimy hands. Have what they have and more. Can’t defend yourself against assault rifles with flint locks!!

  • RaymondSpiller

    @Pete in Alaska Regardless, you can’t purchase any new full auto weapons as a civilian – has to be pre-ban. If you hunt down a pre-ban full auto for anything less than 12,000 dollars, it would be the kind of deal that you immediately pounce on because you won’t see it again.. And that’s the kind of optimistic view that could probably get you diagnosed with something these days =*(

  • RaymondSpiller

    Sub canceled. I’ve never liked H&K and it hasn’t ever had anything to with firearm quality. It’s their elitist D-bag attitude that screams, ‘we aren’t really here for you, but we’ll take your money if you’d like to purchase an over priced pistol – you just can’t have our good stuff..’

  • Andro

    Even though this is old news, i still feel the need to speak out about this. As dumb as this guys comments were about the 2nd amendment and all. What he was ultimatly doing was just expressing his opinion (which thanks to another amendment by the way is completly legal). Just because this guy has an unpopular opinion is no reason to disregard the whole magazine. That editor has since left and the magazine is better than ever, and their other publications (Offgrid & Concealment) are just further showing their dedication and talent in the field. Ian Harrison is taking Recoil into the right direction and each issue sets a new standard for gun magazines

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