16 replies to this topic

[Jersey0311]

So I've been kicking around the idea of setting up a plate carrier for active shooter calls, but on the EMS side. As soon as I read CENTCOMSurvivor's posts about the Rescue Task Force, I bit the bullet and decided to go for it.

 

Currently own soft armor, but I don't wear it while working. I think I'm just going to get soft armor inserts for the PC instead in addition to the hard plates.

 

The vest would be carried in the ambulance with me while working. A helmet would be added on later, but the vest takes priority. Obviously this thing isn't going to be loaded with ammo as I'm unarmed except for a knife or two, but those are more tools than anything else.

 

The PC for this will be the Shellback Banshee. I'm picking one up for $100 brand new from an officer. There are better choices, but $100 for a brand new American made PC isn't something I'm gonna pass up.

 

I'm thinking the layout will be something like this

 

Medic Pouches where the mags would be on the flap such as

 

http://www.lapoliceg...pouch-only.html

http://www.lapoliceg...-emt-pouch.html

http://www.lapoliceg...-med-pouch.html

 

I'd also put an H2O pouch like this somewhere on it w/ 32oz bottle and shit like CLIF/Power Bar type food

 

http://www.lapoliceg...-h2o-pouch.html

http://www.lapoliceg...le-carrier.html

 

Radio pouch

 

http://www.lapoliceg...adio-pouch.html

 

A pistol mag/tool pouch for a knife/multi-tool

 

http://www.lapoliceg...-mag-pouch.html

http://www.lapoliceg...-mag-pouch.html

 

Glove pouch

 

http://www.lapoliceg...love-pouch.html

http://www.lapoliceg...love-pouch.html

 

ID Panels would be placed front and rear

 

http://www.thevestgu...velcro-name-tag

 

Also debating adding smoke grenade pouches and buying commercial smoke grenades

 

http://sportsmoke.co...ade-pouch-black

 

IFAK Pouch

 

http://www.lapoliceg...-gps-pouch.html

 

MED Panel for IFAK Pouch

 

http://www.lapoliceg...ical-pouch.html

 

Not rolling with a hydration bladder because I'll be wearing a medbag on my back as well, see my bag thread for details

 

I'd want it set up so that I can work off of my vest as much as possible before having to resort to digging into the bag. IE if I got the TMS pouch, I'd set up either a 5.11 Med Pouch or the Condor Rip Away Pouch on either side.

 

This is my first time setting up a dedicated medical vest. I can set up ass whoopin' rigs for days, but this is new to me. It should be an interesting process. Pictures will be added once I throw everything on and get everything together.

 

Feel free to add any thoughts or concerns. If you think I missed something, or have something else to say, let me know.

[davebcarr]

I have a banshee ive been wanting to do something similar with, im still in class though so im not sure where to start myself

[Jersey0311]

Finish class. Get some experience out on the street, then take a TCCC class, then worry about your PC.

 

Trust me on that one, if you start worrying about all that stuff now, you'll lose sight of your immediate goal, which passing. Get some experience, take the TCCC class, then worry about everything else later.

 

The PC isn't even necessary, it's just one of those "nice to have" type things. Don't worry about all the fancy shit just yet. You'll be there in no time.

[Davis]

I'm curious to see how this is going to turn out. I've never really thought about doing a rig just from a medic standpoint, but I would think that with the ideas for pouches you have it will be a badass setup and between the PC and your med bag on your back I would think you could work mobile and independent from your ambulance for a good while. 

 

Is your agency giving any support to preparing for an active shooter type scenario by thinking about armor for their responders?

[Jersey0311]

I'm curious to see how this is going to turn out. I've never really thought about doing a rig just from a medic standpoint, but I would think that with the ideas for pouches you have it will be a badass setup and between the PC and your med bag on your back I would think you could work mobile and independent from your ambulance for a good while. 

 

Is your agency giving any support to preparing for an active shooter type scenario by thinking about armor for their responders?

 

Fuck to the no.

 

I am regarded as a "Tackleberry" (from the Police Academy series for those who are younger than me) of sorts sometimes, depending on who I work with. 99% of my coworkers (while they're mostly good people) are sheep. Crazy, I know.

 

I work a 4 on, 4 off schedule, in line with the PD. As such, I work with the same officers day in and day out. There's 2 officers I work with that are switched on individuals (both ex-military), but that's it. They get the concepts and my reasonings for doing things and having certain gear. I've given them IFAKs to carry. They're big into training, just like me.

 

Not too long ago, I was sent to a call for someone with "Altered Mental Status", IE not acting right. As soon as I arrived on scene, without yet making patient contact, I hear the call go out for 2 gunshot victims. I'm the closest unit so I tell HQ that I've got a kit in the truck for that, and I'll be taking the job, and to send another truck to my current assignment.

 

My phone immediately blew up with accusations of being a "whacker" etc, but I feel that I did the right thing. The victims had expired by the time I arrived, but it is what it is.

 

What doesn't help is that this is NJ. For example, LE in other states would have active shooter gear w/ extra mags and ammo, in a bag or vest. That is essentially non-existent in NJ. Just across the river in PA, I know guys whose EMS agencies have TCCC active shooter medkits w/ armor for the crew as well. http://www.montgomer...wmode=fullstory

 

So it's totally area dependent.

 

The agency I work for is responsible for a 25 sq mile area, 100,000 pop, 24 schools, 1 shopping mall, many smaller shopping centers and plazas, etc. It's a very target rich environment. I've been telling anyone that's willing to listen that an active shooter incident or other terrorist type event will happen at some point. It's one of those when, not if it happens type of things.

 

With that in mind, I'm doing my part to be as prepared as I can, because I know 99% of the EMS personnel in town aren't. 99% of the PD is content to carry their gun and 2 spare mags. 99% of them also think the gun is a dead weight on their hip and don't shoot, ever. 99% of them don't bother drawing out any long guns to carry either. The FD in town is pretty much excluded from all active shooter planning and drills for some reason.

 

We ran an active shooter drill at the mall a few months ago. 911 call came into HQ, SWAT rolls out, neutralizes the shooter, then EMS is cleared to go in. EMS participation consisted of throwing a piece of gauze to participants. No real training value for EMS there, and zero presence from the FD. The whole Rescue Task Force concept would get laughed at in my town.

 

For those who don't know, Rescue Task Force is something that was developed by the Arlington County FD in VA. It's essentially a fire team (4 people) consisting of 2 cops who are responsible for front/rear security, and 2 medical personnel. The cops do nothing but babysit and make sure everyone's safe. The medical personnel only worry about patient care. They would follow behind the contact team (first group of cops whose job is to find and kill the shooter) and render aid to any wounded that they encounter.

 

When I'm working, I do what I can to educate my coworkers on TCCC type stuff, if they're willing to listen. I love my job and the town I'm in, but unfortunately, it's going to take someone getting hurt or killed in an incident for things to change. Setting up this vest is my way of trying to mitigate that.

 

Once I make the switch to the PD side (hopefully this summer), I'm going to continue doing what I can to be prepared. I don't mind the name calling or the being made fun of, because one day, when the stuff has to get used, it's all going to be worth it if it saves someone's life.

Edited by Jersey0311, 25 December 2013 - 12:01 AM.

[Davis]

That sounds like a very frustrating situation... to work in such a target rich environment and to have so many people (including the LE it sounds like) take the "it won't happen to us/here" attitude would have me fuming. In this day and age with all the shit that happens everyday in our country I do not understand how anybody involved in the 911 system really thinks that they are exempt from shit happening in their AOR. It doesn't matter if you live in a "everybody know your name" town or a big metropolitan area, in my opinion it is always just a matter of when not if.

 

I'm glad that you are not folding to the peer pressure, I've always said fuck the haters. They will figure it out when they are forced to pull their head out of the sand after a tragedy.   

[davebcarr]

Finish class. Get some experience out on the street, then take a TCCC class, then worry about your PC.

 

Trust me on that one, if you start worrying about all that stuff now, you'll lose sight of your immediate goal, which passing. Get some experience, take the TCCC class, then worry about everything else later.

 

The PC isn't even necessary, it's just one of those "nice to have" type things. Don't worry about all the fancy shit just yet. You'll be there in no time.

 

Thats kind of my thought right now, im not really concerned with it at this point. Just something ive turned over in my mind a few times

[spenceman]

I probably don't need to tell you this because you have your head on straight, but for the benefit of those who dont...

 

Be careful with the smokes, while they can be effective at screening your movements they can also alert the bad guys to your location. On top of that (and the bigger threat) if you do have a bunch of clueless folks on your team, you'll freak them out and confuse them, they'll think there's a bomb, etc, etc. So make sure that you work out whether or not they are aware of/ok with you using screening smoke, or else you might get shot in the back by your friends.

[Jersey0311]

I probably don't need to tell you this because you have your head on straight, but for the benefit of those who dont...

 

Be careful with the smokes, while they can be effective at screening your movements they can also alert the bad guys to your location. On top of that (and the bigger threat) if you do have a bunch of clueless folks on your team, you'll freak them out and confuse them, they'll think there's a bomb, etc, etc. So make sure that you work out whether or not they are aware of/ok with you using screening smoke, or else you might get shot in the back by your friends.

 

This was my main concern with employing smokes.

 

Us being ex-mil, smoke is second nature. I'll have to reconsider the smoke employment.

[Peter.C]

I have found in my area of NJ, police departments are more than willing to try to get new toys to deal with active shooter scenarios. My police department was the first tactical team inside at the Garden State Plaza active shooter incident last month and they were able to deploy two full teams in under 20 minutes. 

 

What it comes down to IMHO and from what I have heard, money. I am right my NYC so much more federal funding is available. Right now we are in the process of assigning our tactical officers with AR-15s, an upgrade from MP5s because we have that federal funding availible.

 

While this is nice, not much happens in the line of EMS because people are too willing to say "this will not happen to us, we do not live in a bad neighborhood" which just hurts everyone. Thankfully we have a police officer as a chief so we do have PCs available. It was amazing when I learned that we were the only EMS unit at the GSP event which had vests.

 

I will be working tonight so I will try to remember to take some pics of the PCs we run and show the layout for inspiration for anyone.

[CENTCOMSurvivor]

With RTF coming I'd be interested to see what EMS units are going to come up with vest wise. If its anything like the LEO side, they will go with the lowest bidder and someone with no tactical experience will do all the ordering. 

Its great to see you guys taking this stuff seriously! 

[Jersey0311]

With RTF coming I'd be interested to see what EMS units are going to come up with vest wise. If its anything like the LEO side, they will go with the lowest bidder and someone with no tactical experience will do all the ordering. 

Its great to see you guys taking this stuff seriously! 

 

Someone's got to take it seriously. Unfortunately, it won't catch on until an incident happens and people die as a result. That's usually what it takes to achieve some sort of change in military and public safety circles.

 

My agency just got a new Chief. He's young and I'm hoping I can convince him into at least sending people to TCCC class. Baby steps. Gotta start somewhere.

[CENTCOMSurvivor]

I think Aurora is to FD/EMS what Columbine was to police. Its just a matter of everyone getting on board. 

[Jersey0311]

I think Aurora is to FD/EMS what Columbine was to police. Its just a matter of everyone getting on board. 

 

If you asked half my coworkers, they wouldn't even know what you were talking about.

 

The quality of personnel that make it into EMS is sorely lacking. Sheep, sheep, and more fucking sheep. I'm fighting an uphill battle. But I'm still fighting.

[CENTCOMSurvivor]

If you asked half my coworkers, they wouldn't even know what you were talking about.

 

The quality of personnel that make it into EMS is sorely lacking. Sheep, sheep, and more fucking sheep. I'm fighting an uphill battle. But I'm still fighting.

 

Wow, from what everyone was saying at SOMA Aurora was a big deal in the EMS world, guess not everyone is paying attention. 

[Jersey0311]

Wow, from what everyone was saying at SOMA Aurora was a big deal in the EMS world, guess not everyone is paying attention. 

 

I attribute it to the NY metro area that I work and live in. Arguably the largest concentration of sheep in the USA.

 

Switched on people are a rarity up here, especially in public safety circles. Hell, even amongst my military students at McGuire AFB, 99% are sheep from what I've seen. They were giving one student shit because he CCWs when and where he can.

 

I know cops who refuse to carry spare mags off duty (others only plan on carrying in "dangerous" places) because "If I can't solve it with one mag, it doesn't need solving" and yes, that's a direct quote from one of my good friends. He's ex-Army, he should fucking know better.

 

One of my coworkers is a 7 year 68W who left active duty w/ 10th Mountain and is now in the Guard. He, of all people, doesn't feel it's necessary to carry even just a TQ on him at work.

 

I hate NJ.

[DeathwatchDoc]

America is disturbingly full of sheeple anymore. Hard to watch the blatant stupidity and not want to slap some sense into folks. But what should we expect when we are wolves in a world of sheep?

The local ems around here is pathetically undertrained for anything tactical, I think Aurora would have to happen here before folks would pull their heads out and look at reality.